Surprise of the Year: Under Gibson Ownership, Mesa Boogie is Reissuing Amps - The Mark IIC+ Returns

[tbonesullivan]

Well, the amp is now "out" and demos have started to come out. Mesa put out another, and basically got lots of complaints that it wasn't just 10 minutes of Metallica and John Petrucci riffs. Even complaints that they didn't know how to use the EQ for the "80s shred" portion, even though they literally are using the same shape that Hetfield is known for using. There will probably be a TON of demos popping up in the next few days.
 

 

[tbonesullivan]

And for those with 52 minutes to spare:
 

 

[Devnor]

8 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

Well, the amp is now "out" and demos have started to come out. Mesa put out another, and basically got lots of complaints that it wasn't just 10 minutes of Metallica and John Petrucci riffs. Even complaints that they didn't know how to use the EQ for the "80s shred" portion, even though they literally are using the same shape that Hetfield is known for using.

That was predictable.  Hopefully everyone ahead of me on the waitlist cancels their orders so I'll receive mine sooner. 

[tbonesullivan]

Just now, Devnor said:

That was predictable.  Hopefully everyone ahead of me on the waitlist cancels their orders so I'll receive mine sooner. 

What's funny is that all these people want it to "chug"... uh... John Petrucci and Metallica are hardly part of the Djent crowd, and that's not the type of sound that made the Mesa IIC+ famous.

[Devnor]

The Gibson guy was probably not the best player to demo the amp but the tones I heard thru my computer speakers sound very familiar to me. They didn't totally goose the amp into noisy oblivion either.  

[tbonesullivan]

15 minutes ago, Devnor said:

The Gibson guy was probably not the best player to demo the amp but the tones I heard thru my computer speakers sound very familiar to me. They didn't totally goose the amp into noisy oblivion either.  

That's Dinesh Lekhraj in the first video, and I think he works for Gibson now, but he's been doing some of the Mesa official demos since at least 2018. Even well before the Gibson deal was announced I did notice that lots of Gibson guitars were featured in their videos.

And he's also in the ZZounds video:
 

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by tbonesullivan

[Devnor]

5 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

That's Dinesh Lekhraj in the first video, and I think he works for Gibson now, but he's been doing some of the Mesa official demos since at least 2018. Even well before the Gibson deal was announced I did notice that lots of Gibson guitars were featured in their videos.

I was hoping they would use Doug West's Anderson guitar with H3 pickups.  This was the one they supposedly used when they were tuning the IIC+.  I pulled my Andy from storage for when the reissue arrives. 

[tbonesullivan]

On 12/3/2024 at 12:01 PM, Devnor said:

I was hoping they would use Doug West's Anderson guitar with H3 pickups.  This was the one they supposedly used when they were tuning the IIC+.  I pulled my Andy from storage for when the reissue arrives. 

Yeah, I would have loved that. But there are some great tones in this demo that Sweetwater just released, which of course the super metalheads are angry about because it's not just Djent Djent Djent for 10 minutes.
 

 

[LucSulla]

On 12/3/2024 at 10:18 AM, tbonesullivan said:

Well, the amp is now "out" and demos have started to come out. Mesa put out another, and basically got lots of complaints that it wasn't just 10 minutes of Metallica and John Petrucci riffs. Even complaints that they didn't know how to use the EQ for the "80s shred" portion, even though they literally are using the same shape that Hetfield is known for using. There will probably be a TON of demos popping up in the next few days.

 

The all need to write 100 times, "The sound you hear on the album is not the same sound the amp made in the room."

Too many people expect an amp and guitar to recreate an entire signal chain and mixing/mastering process. 

[tbonesullivan]

2 minutes ago, LucSulla said:

The all need to write 100 times, "The sound you hear on the album is not the same sound the amp made in the room."

Too many people expect an amp and guitar to recreate an entire signal chain and mixing/mastering process. 

Yep... or they expect it to sound exactly like their own amp does, through their own cabinet, at exactly the same angle they usually are at when playing.

I did notice that the "guitarists react to the IIC+" video from SweetWater apparently got pulled. I wonder if some of the Youtube personalities they had on it wanted out of it, as some barely got to play, while Ben Eller and Erin Coburn were doing almost all of the demoing.

At least it was a decent demo. Being a Carvin amplifier fan previously, as well as someone who wants to pick up a Fuchs amp in the future, why does it seem that some companies fail so utterly to put out a usable demo of the amplifier?

[velorush]

17 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

as well as someone who wants to pick up a Fuchs amp in the future

I haven't owned many amps at all, but the two Fuchs amps I owned (briefly) had the most absolutely thick clean tone I have ever heard out of any amp ever, whether I was playing it, someone else was playing it, live, on a record, anywhere. So much harmonic information coming out of the speaker no overdrive was necessary. It was an amazing experience.

@bubs_42 got me started down that rabbit hole. I have been tempted off and on to pick up one of the first version Blackjacks (single channel) as I didn't see the need for the OD channel. 

[Cboss]

5 hours ago, velorush said:

I haven't owned many amps at all, but the two Fuchs amps I owned (briefly) had the most absolutely thick clean tone I have ever heard out of any amp ever, whether I was playing it, someone else was playing it, live, on a record, anywhere. So much harmonic information coming out of the speaker no overdrive was necessary. It was an amazing experience.

@bubs_42 got me started down that rabbit hole. I have been tempted off and on to pick up one of the first version Blackjacks (single channel) as I didn't see the need for the OD channel. 

Which Fuchs did you play that put out that amazing tone? I would love to know more about these amps, they are dumble-based? I see that the casino series are more affordable quote, which seems to mean PCB based, so does that mean the other ones are point to point really great Construction?

[bubs_42]

8 hours ago, velorush said:

I haven't owned many amps at all, but the two Fuchs amps I owned (briefly) had the most absolutely thick clean tone I have ever heard out of any amp ever, whether I was playing it, someone else was playing it, live, on a record, anywhere. So much harmonic information coming out of the speaker no overdrive was necessary. It was an amazing experience.

@bubs_42 got me started down that rabbit hole. I have been tempted off and on to pick up one of the first version Blackjacks (single channel) as I didn't see the need for the OD channel. 

The Original Black Jack 21 with the chassis on the bottom of the cabinet is very Trainwreck, everything is at your volume knob. The later single channel the chassis is inverted and they sound more Fendery/Dumble’ish. Very Much like the vintage channel of the current Black Jack 21. 

Their happens to be an Early Black Jack 21 With the MV Added by Fuchs on GC Website. An even better Deal on a matching cab for it on Musicgoround. The Blackjack was by far my favoite of the Casino Series. I of course owned all three versions at the same time. Along with every Fuchs Cabinet offering. 

If  you like the Thick Overdrive Sound the Currentl two channel is the one to get, if you like Classic straight ahead tone the Earlier versions are for you. (My Personal Preference is the Earlier Versions) 

Construction of the amps are PC Boards but done very very well. IMHO the Casino Series is bang for the buck if you want that type of tone. The Full House 50 specifically gets you closer to his more “High End” offerings, but with an easier user interface.  

[velorush]

What @bubs_42 said. He’s much more up on all the nuances and what sounds like what. I just know I really liked it. 
 

Both I owned were the PC board versions. The first was a Blackjack 21 head I picked up used at GC. It had some problem I don’t recall, so I returned it. The second was a Lucky 7 combo I bought new from GTRDaddy. It was unbelievably loud and sounded very much like the 21. The clean channel was great. The gain channel was likewise great and had more gain on tap than I would ever use. EQ controls were extremely effective. The coolest thing to me was how I could set the amp for the highest gain I’d need, then every shade was available directly from the volume control on the guitar. 
 

Another thing about Andy Fuchs: there was a conversation early on about the reverb or something (?). Mr. Fuchs insisted I send the chassis back to him. He fixed whatever it was, but also added upgrades that he’d come up with since it was built, all at his expense. 
 

Great company. 

[Brooks]

Are these the Mesas that Brad Gillis linked w/ a Roland stereo chorus to get the monstrous tone on Speak Of The Devil?

 

 

Edited December 7, 2024 by Brooks

[tbonesullivan]

On 12/7/2024 at 11:28 AM, Brooks said:

Are these the Mesas that Brad Gillis linked w/ a Roland stereo chorus to get the monstrous tone on Speak Of The Devil?

 

 

Too early for the Mark IIC+, that would have been the Mark IIB. Didn't have the INSANE gain of the IIC and IIC+, but definitely could bring the thunder. They "reintroduced" it as a mode on the Mark VII, as there are people who definitely love their IIB amps, and would never change them. There were however also a lot of IIB and IIC amps that were upgraded to the IIC+, especially the IIC with the gain stages AFTER the effects loop, which honestly was kind of a bone head move.

[tbonesullivan]

This is probably the most objective comparison I've seen.
 

 

[LucSulla]

I kinda want one, but probably not enough to buy one. 

[scottcald]

6 hours ago, tbonesullivan said:

Too early for the Mark IIC+, that would have been the Mark IIB. Didn't have the INSANE gain of the IIC and IIC+, but definitely could bring the thunder. They "reintroduced" it as a mode on the Mark VII, as there are people who definitely love their IIB amps, and would never change them. There were however also a lot of IIB and IIC amps that were upgraded to the IIC+, especially the IIC with the gain stages AFTER the effects loop, which honestly was kind of a bone head move.

This from a few years back from Gillis himself:

[tbonesullivan]

19 hours ago, scottcald said:

This from a few years back from Gillis himself:

I mean, it's possible he got some early ones at the very end of the tour, which ran December 10, 1982 to May 29, 1983

But by all accounts May 1983 was when the IIC was released, and the IIC+ in February 1984. It may be that he's mis-remembering (i mean it was 40 years ago), or like many he had them upgraded to IICs or IIC+ amps later, which was quite common.

[RobB]

21 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

I mean, it's possible he got some early ones at the very end of the tour, which ran December 10, 1982 to May 29, 1983

But by all accounts May 1983 was when the IIC was released, and the IIC+ in February 1984. It may be that he's mis-remembering (i mean it was 40 years ago), or like many he had them upgraded to IICs or IIC+ amps later, which was quite common.

Whatever they were, one of the most godly metal tones ever recorded. "Symptom of the Universe"...holy SHITSNACKS!

[tbonesullivan]

14 hours ago, RobB said:

Whatever they were, one of the most godly metal tones ever recorded. "Symptom of the Universe"...holy SHITSNACKS!

YES. He was running two in STEREO with a slight delay. There are some vids where he describes pretty much exactly how he got the sound. Definitely a fantastic metal tone, and I can see why many people still love and adore their IIBs, and why mesa put it as a mode on the Mark VII. I kinda wish they had put that mode on the Mark V as well, but you can only put so many modes in.  Maybe I should just hunt down a quad preamp...

[crunchee]

I'll bet Gibson/Mesa Boogie's glad to hear that the trend of trying to sound like well-known recordings of already established artists, and making players throw money at gear makers because of that, hasn't gone the way of the ten-dollar concert ticket.  Years ago, I bought a Marshall-built Vox AC-30TB.  I eventually got rid of it because it ran hot, was too heavy to lug around, was too loud for my needs, and didn't deliver on Beatles/Queen/U2 guitar sounds without lots of additional 'help'.  I don't try to 'nail' somebody else's sound anymore, mainly because it's already been done.

[BoogieMKIIA]

8 hours ago, crunchee said:

I'll bet Gibson/Mesa Boogie's glad to hear that the trend of trying to sound like well-known recordings of already established artists, and making players throw money at gear makers because of that, hasn't gone the way of the ten-dollar concert ticket.  Years ago, I bought a Marshall-built Vox AC-30TB.  I eventually got rid of it because it ran hot, was too heavy to lug around, was too loud for my needs, and didn't deliver on Beatles/Queen/U2 guitar sounds without lots of additional 'help'.  I don't try to 'nail' somebody else's sound anymore, mainly because it's already been done.

I mostly agree but will note that what made certain amps highly regarded was the ability to forge your own sound. It is easier with modern amps and pedals. Great point about copying sounds. Digital technology is mostly recreating old amps. The power to do unimagined sounds and tones is incredible, hardly is being done. A newer generation may figure out how.

Still, nothing sounds quite like a B3 through a Leslie (pair of 6550 tubes) or a Les Paul through a Marshall. Or one of several Boogies with whatever axe.

[Devnor]

My IIC+ reissue arrived a few days ago.  I would post a pic but I can't figure out how on this site  My dealer received 5 amps and just learned I was number 5 on the waiting list. While I was waiting on the amp, I've been playing my OG IIC+ SRG. Few thoughts:

Just being real here but if I had to do a blindfold test and not hearing with my eyes, I would not be able to tell the difference between my OG SRG and the reissue. All the sounds & quirks are there. It's pretty amazing actually.  Has all the note bloom and feedback as the OG.  It reacts the same with different guitars as the OG.  At extreme settings, low masters and high V1 & drive, it gets just as noisy.

The tones on all the youtube demos are shit. Being in the room and interacting with the amp in the way the player wants to hear things is such a different experience.