Tuning problems on a vintage Sunburst

[maxprs]

Hi all,
I have some tuning problems on a ‘79 Sunburst; I don't know much about its past but I believe the tuners are original.

When playing I have to keep correcting the tuning, and the movement of the tuners does not seem smooth.
Perhaps they would need some maintenance, has anyone had any experience and can advise me on anything?

Thanks

[Jimbilly]

check all the screws holding the bridge down? make sure the nuts holding the tuning keys in place are snug? And the little screws on the ends of the tuning keys are a little bit snug too?  See if the nut string slots are too tight/sticky? 

 Is it mostly one string?, or all of them?

[crunchee]

IIRC, the only Grover Rotomatics I've ever seen on early Hamers are the ones with the 'bullseye' backs on them, anybody know if the ones pictured above are later replacements or not?  I know that Hamer used 'regular' Rotomatics from the late '90s onward, anybody know of the timeline on Rotomatics with Hamers?

Edited November 24, 2024 by crunchee

[crunchee]

Here's an old HFC post I found online (archived from March 27, 2017) that might be of interest:

https://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/topic/78982-grover-bullseye-sloppy-tuners/

Edited November 24, 2024 by crunchee

[maxprs]

12 hours ago, Jimbilly said:

check all the screws holding the bridge down? make sure the nuts holding the tuning keys in place are snug? And the little screws on the ends of the tuning keys are a little bit snug too?  See if the nut string slots are too tight/sticky? 

 Is it mostly one string?, or all of them?

The tuning problems are about on all, it's a general feeling that you can't fine regulating them.
Will check what you said though, thanks a lot.

10 hours ago, crunchee said:

Here's an old HFC post I found online (archived from March 27, 2017) that might be of interest:

https://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/topic/78982-grover-bullseye-sloppy-tuners/

That's a good source, thank you very much.
 

[maxprs]

11 hours ago, crunchee said:

IIRC, the only Grover Rotomatics I've ever seen on early Hamers are the ones with the 'bullseye' backs on them, anybody know if the ones pictured above are later replacements or not?  I know that Hamer used 'regular' Rotomatics from the late '90s onward, anybody know of the timeline on Rotomatics with Hamers?

This is like mine, really similar, and has the same tuners:
https://guitarpoint.de/product/1979-hamer-sunburst-natural-flametop-rare/

So I believe they were original by Hamer back then.

[HSB0531]

Maybe they're Chinese Grover tuners.  Anything Chinese with a threaded groove or a gear has a ton of slop in it.

Or they could be French made Gruyere: https://www.murrayscheese.com/dp/murray-s-cave-aged-gruyer

But seriously, as others said, check the top nut, the attaching screw on the back, check the bridge screws, and also check the string winding around the post, it could be slipping there.  If all these look good, try and disassemble a tuner and see if the ring and pinion gears are worn.  It's always possible that a screw gun with a tuner attachment caused a partial failure.

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by HSB0531

[maxprs]

2 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

Maybe they're Chinese Grover tuners.  Anything Chinese with a threaded groove or a gear has a ton of slop in it.

Or they could be French made Gruyere: https://www.murrayscheese.com/dp/murray-s-cave-aged-gruyer

But seriously, as others said, check the top nut, the attaching screw on the back, check the bridge screws, and also check the string winding around the post, it could be slipping there.  If all these look good, try and disassemble a tuner and see if the ring and pinion gears are worn.  It's always possible that a screw gun with a tuner attachment caused a partial failure.

 

😁

Yeah, they're all some good advices.
I'm good at setting up a guitar with truss rod, strings action, ect. but I never had anything to do with tuners so I'm a complete nubby on this!

Thanks a lot.

[Hbom]

There are several good vids on YouTube covering how to clean and lube (and spot fake) Grover tuners. I'd try cleaning out the old lube and adjusting a bit.

If I still wasn't happy, I'd probably replace them with Bulleyes.  

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by Hbom

[maxprs]

29 minutes ago, Hbom said:

There are several good vids on YouTube covering how to clean and lube (and spot fake) Grover tuners. I'd try cleaning out the old lube and adjusting a bit.

If I still wasn't happy, I'd probably replace them with Bulleyes.  

 

I've found this and read the first comment 😁😁😁

When you say in case you'd replace them with bulleyes, do you mean vintage tuners or brand new?
It's a vintage guitar, sacrilege!!

[crunchee]

42 minutes ago, maxprs said:

When you say in case you'd replace them with bulleyes, do you mean vintage tuners or brand new?
It's a vintage guitar, sacrilege!!

'Bullseye'-back Grovers haven't been made in years, and they were often seen on early (late 70's/early '80's) Hamers.  That's about all I know about that variant, perhaps another HFC member knows more.  You can do an item search online and find them pictured in old Reverb ads for used Grover tuners, if you don't know what they look like.  They're very distinctive.

Edited November 24, 2024 by crunchee

[kizanski]

3 hours ago, crunchee said:

'Bullseye'-back Grovers haven't been made in years, and they were often seen on early (late 70's/early '80's) Hamers.  That's about all I know about that variant, perhaps another HFC member knows more.  You can do an item search online and find them pictured in old Reverb ads for used Grover tuners, if you don't know what they look like.  They're very distinctive.

[HSB0531]

13 hours ago, kizanski said:

^^^^^There you go ^^^^^

[Hbom]

What's been said about Bulleyes is pretty much what little I know about them. Period correct for some early Hamers, they look good, and they don't make them anymore.

They also may have issues about the same as you are experiencing with the plain backs on your guitar. Stiff moving and slipping a bit out of tune. That was the issue with the ones that came on my '79 Sunburst.

They are available on most of the used parts spots. Ebay, Reverb ect. The prices vary depending on who and where, but I usually see them between $75-$150.

They also show up when some old Hamer fan cleans out their parts drawer. You might try a request in the FS WTB thread here. But be patient it may take a while.

In your case I would suggest cleaning what you have and if you are still having issues check into what will fit your guitar without any holes being drilled. I would guess there are tuners available now that are more stable than the old Grovers.

If you really want Bulleyes just keep your eyes open in all the familiar places and your fingers crossed. They show up from time to time and you never know when you might get lucky.

D

ps I did this 10 years ago and it took 2 years to find 6 good tuners.

 

edit: Monday morning on Reverb Grover Bullseye Vintage 3x3 Tuners | Reverb

 

Edited November 25, 2024 by Hbom

[Jimbilly]

I wonder if there's a direct replacement from Gotoh? I always like those.  Then just stick the originals in a bag in the case. 

[maxprs]

4 hours ago, Hbom said:

What's been said about Bulleyes is pretty much what little I know about them. Period correct for some early Hamers, they look good, and they don't make them anymore.

They also may have issues about the same as you are experiencing with the plain backs on your guitar. Stiff moving and slipping a bit out of tune. That was the issue with the ones that came on my '79 Sunburst.

They are available on most of the used parts spots. Ebay, Reverb ect. The prices vary depending on who and where, but I usually see them between $75-$150.

They also show up when some old Hamer fan cleans out their parts drawer. You might try a request in the FS WTB thread here. But be patient it may take a while.

In your case I would suggest cleaning what you have and if you are still having issues check into what will fit your guitar without any holes being drilled. I would guess there are tuners available now that are more stable than the old Grovers.

If you really want Bulleyes just keep your eyes open in all the familiar places and your fingers crossed. They show up from time to time and you never know when you might get lucky.

D

ps I did this 10 years ago and it took 2 years to find 6 good tuners.

 

edit: Monday morning on Reverb Grover Bullseye Vintage 3x3 Tuners | Reverb

 

Yeah, you're right, the cleaning is the first thing to carry out... let's see if I can sort this out without a replacement, but if not I will.
This guitar is a beauty, but I need a "player grade" one, I'm not a collector.
Absolutely only compliant tuners, go figure if I put new holes in a vintage guitar like this.

Thanks fot the link from Reverb. I'm located in Europe so I will keep an eye (or better... a bulleye) on closer deals first... let's see.