Ruminating on EVH and Eras of Guitar

[LucSulla]

I was reading the EVH by Tolinski and Gill at the same time I was listening to a bunch of 70s Scorpions stuff in the background. 

I think people either forget or just don't know that there was just straight up shred in the 70s. I don't mean a board full of guitar nerds, I mean the more general public who also fancies themselves rock n roll nuts. That solo at the beginning of "The Sails of Charon" would qualify as shreddy goodness in any decade, particularly when it comes to the actual part and playing it. There's this notion among most of the laity that the 70s was all just escalating pentatonics, hammer-ons, and pull-offs, basically "Freebird" being one of the craziest solos ever, but that really isn't the case in that decade. There are a lot of solos through out it that, if you had a clean signal, you could reamp through a modern rig and it would frikin rip as modern as you could ask for. However, unless you grew up in that era, they aren't all that obvious. When I started learning to play in the early 90s, finding a song like "Race With Devil on Spanish Highway" was like discovering Cro-Magnon man existed 200k years earlier than was commonly accepted.  

The main things Eddie established in the guitar playing lexicon as far a techniques that would become ubiquitous due to him is two-hand tapping and really taking the whammy bar to a whole new level. Otherwise, there were already guys playing that fast - UJR and Al DiMeola leap to mind, You could toss Ritchie Blackmore and a few others in there pretty comfortably. Alan Holdsworth was already doing some absurdly wild and cool legato/atonal stuff. 

I mean, good lord! 

So, tapping acknowledged, I don't think it was specifically introducing that to the mainstream, though that was a part of the whole, part of Eddie's gestalt, so to speak. 

The argument that I am throwing out here is, that it's Eddie's sound combined with the other stuff that was really the separation point. These other guys had chops from the future, but it was sonically still rooted in the late 60s through when EVH hit the scene. What gets lost, especially among more casual players and the general audience, is how important his tinkering was, probably maybe so than tapping. His tearing apart all those guitars and blowing amps up until he finally arrived at what you hear in VH1 it's part of it too. 

I'm not saying the technique wasn't important, I just think it took both. Had "Eruption" not had a sound to match the otherworldliness of the the technique, I'm not sure it would have been the same moment it was and vice versa. It's one thing hearing a dude play a two-handed arpeggio or hearing some classically influenced phrasing instead of pentatonic leads, it's a whole other thing to have them framed in this sound that just sounds like an amp melting in the best possible way - at the same time you're thinking "I've never heard this before," it also feels like "this is exactly what I always wanted to hear and didn't even know it!." 

So that's the argument - it took both in equal measure for that moment to have happened. One without the other, and Eddie may have just been another great 70s/80s rock guitarist in a band that was really good at writing pop songs dressed up as hard rock. 

I'm not sure that I 100% buy that argument myself, but I do find it interesting to think about. I get kind of obsessed with these things - when something becomes something else definitively. When I drive back out to Austin, I know there is a point where the land quits looking like the Deep South and starts looking like Central Texas because I definitely know when I'm in one or the other, but saying exactly where it is and why that happens is an ongoing thing that fascinates me. 

Similar here - what is it that makes a bunch of guys who all have monster technique a part of a different era, Before Eddie, particularly when they have so many of the same influences? I'm not down playing EVH being the GOAT - for me he was and always will be. But when you break it down into to various parts, there were some people doing some of any of it before him, which is why I think it took a guy doing all of it at once to create that moment. Chops alone weren't enough. 

[tbonesullivan]

Being a big EVH / Van Halen fan, as well as a big fan of Randy Rhoads, I've heard all kind of back and forth about the "hot guitarists" in the LA scene at the time, and the "Big Three" at the time were EVH, Randy, and George Lynch, and apparently Lynch was the most well regarded before VH1 dropped. I don't really agree with that, however unfortunately his career path did not take him into the same incredible environments that EVH and RR got to experience when they were recording, and I think his talents were not given the same opportunity to shine.

EVH is truly singular, and as stated he had all of that incredible stuff before him, and had the exact environment needed to really bring it out. Remove any part of his sound recipe, and it won't be the same. Regardless of how ill advised some of his "mods" were, they often remind me of the same way that another luminary chopped up and modded guitars in ways that many scream when they see: Les Paul. Some people just are that way, so Eddie can be somewhat forgiven for destroying that destroyer, which he freely admits he did.

I do think that Eddie often did not have the best public persona, maybe somewhat due to his alcoholism, and he often came off poorly, especially regarding how secretive he was regarding techniques, and his perceived lack of respect towards his contemporaries. There's a story about how after EVH1 came out, RR had asked EVH how he was able to keep the trem so well in tune, and per the story EVH pretty much blew him off. There are also the "taught him everything" and "he was the only one who admitted that he stole stuff from me" crap that EVH said. I do understand that a lot of that may have blown over from dislike for Kevin DuBrow, but it's still not really a classy move. Some of this could be a BIT jaded by knowing how poorly Michael Anthony was treated by the band.

To get back on track, one thing really unique about EVH's playing is how rhythmic it is, and in many ways he is almost a percussionist with the way he approaches things. This is especially noticeable in tracks like Spanish Fly, Mean Street, and others. He came from a musical family, and was a piano prodigy when he was younger. He also originally played the drums, while Alex played the guitar, and seems to have retained that. His mother was also "Indo", the word used for people of mixed Dutch-Indonesian heritage, and that also introduced some influence into his playing. I will say I have found it interesting that two of my favorite guitarists, EVH and Jake E. Lee, are both of AAPI heritage.

[RobB]

37 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

There’s story about how after EVH1 came out, RR had asked EVH how he was able to keep the trem so well in tune, and per the story EVH pretty much blew him off. 

To paraphrase, I believe Edward’s response was: “Do your own fuckin’ homework!” Classic. 

[ZR]

So many guitarists I followed I would mainly key in on the solos. Fast forwarding the cassette tape to the solos as I drove along was commonplace. But, Eddie's rhythm chops (and little fills) were off the charts that the whole song demanded my attention! That cat had it all!

[mathman]

His rhythms chording and melodic solos are what impressed me.  And his unique hooks.

also the fills.  Mainly he was a complete package.

[Jakeboy]

“So that's the argument - it took both in equal measure for that moment to have happened. One without the other, and Eddie may have just been another great 70s/80s rock guitarist in a band that was really good at writing pop songs dressed up as hard rock. “
 

With EVH it all came together in one perfect package. The virtuoso is in an EXTREMELY accessible band than was so much fun! Eddie’s big smile…I mean that just wasn’t cool or normal, until  EVH made it uber-cool.VH had humor, chops, great songwriting,  fun, and the swing, OMG, the swing. That makes the music so accessible to people who want to party, dance, and have fun.

It was all the perfect platform and formula to showcase his rhythm chops, tapping, and vibrato bar heroics which just sounded so damn cool.  It was all a perfect package at the perfect time with a perfect guitarist.

 

Edited February 7 by Jakeboy

[mathman]

Oh yea ^^^^^. the Swing is the thing!

[LucSulla]

16 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

“So that's the argument - it took both in equal measure for that moment to have happened. One without the other, and Eddie may have just been another great 70s/80s rock guitarist in a band that was really good at writing pop songs dressed up as hard rock. “
 

With EVH it all came together in one perfect package. The virtuoso is in an EXTREMELY accessible band than was so much fun! Eddie’s big smile…I mean that just wasn’t cool or normal, until  EVH made it uber-cool.VH had humor, chops, great songwriting,  fun, and the swing, OMG, the swing. That makes the music so accessible to people who want to party, dance, and have fun.

It was all the perfect platform and formula to showcase his rhythm chops, tapping, and vibrato bar heroics which just sounded so damn cool.  It was all a perfect package at the perfect time with a perfect guitarist.

 

I've really found a lot of his rhythm work harder to nail down than the solos in a great many cases. Like, I don't know any Van Halen solos note for note either, but this is largely a product of being in a band who is never going to cover Van Halen really. I tinker with them a bit and the realize "I'm going to woodshed something that I will never play for anyone else," and it kills my motivation because I wish that were not the case so much. But I have messed with enough of them to feel like I basically understood what was up. 

But, man, I have put in TIME trying to get the pre-chorus rhythm down for "Unchained" and still don't have it. It's a complete brain twister. 

[velorush]

^^That is exactly it^^ No one could match the swing. These videos have fascinated me and I've watched them over and over again:

Edited February 7 by velorush

[diablo175]

For years I too labored under the notion that EVH's wow factor lay rooted in his blazing speed and ground breaking (or at least the codifying of) certain techniques (tapping harmonics, whammy bar, et al.) I overlooked his equipment experiments and more importantly, his feel.

I mean, fuck it. He's the complete package as far as guitar gods go.

 

[Jakeboy]

I only ever learned the basic intro chord sequence to Unchained. I never had a need to learn the entire song and kinda didn’t want to….if suck ass ME can replicate something than the magic goes away a bit..,but now I gotta learn the pre-chorus part @LucSulla references. This is now a motivator.

[diablo175]

16 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

I only ever learned the basic intro chord sequence to Unchained. I never had a need to learn the entire song and kinda didn’t want to….if suck ass ME can replicate something than the magic goes away a bit..,but now I gotta learn the pre-chorus part @LucSulla references. This is now a motivator.

I'm still struggling to get half decent versions of You Really Got Me and Ain't Talking About Love. Been at them for 4 years now. But I am a slow as molasses learner.

[LucSulla]

16 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

I only ever learned the basic intro chord sequence to Unchained. I never had a need to learn the entire song and kinda didn’t want to….if suck ass ME can replicate something than the magic goes away a bit..,but now I gotta learn the pre-chorus part @LucSulla references. This is now a motivator.

Uncle Ben, like always, has the only breakdown worth watching. 
 

 

[crunchee]

Turning music into a Master's level dissertation kinda sucks the fun out of it, at least to me anyway.

Kinda reminds me of this music theory 'tempest in a teacup' from music press reviewers and other 'muzos' that came up when The Beatles hit big in 1963/4.  I think one of the original jokey responses about it came from John Lennon when he said early on: "'Aeolian Credenzas'?  What's that?"

Full article: Not a Second Time? John Lennon’s Aeolian Cadence Reconsidered

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/credenza

Edited February 9 by crunchee

[Brooks]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:53 PM, RobB said:

To paraphrase, I believe Edward’s response was: “Do your own fuckin’ homework!” Classic. 

I remember reading that RR claimed EVH said "Jeff Beck showed me but asked me not to show anyone else", ha

[Brooks]

Jan Akkerman shreds it up here in 73, sweeps & super fast runs, yowsa!
 

 

[Biz Prof]

That's the Les Paul Personal model that Paul and Jol retopped and fitted with PAFs for Jan during their pre-Hamer-Northern Prairie days. 

[Biz Prof]

On 2/7/2025 at 1:46 PM, LucSulla said:

But, man, I have put in TIME trying to get the pre-chorus rhythm down for "Unchained" and still don't have it. It's a complete brain twister. 

It's an illogical sequence and rhythm...but it works for that song.