Smoking ban coming - giggers opinions?

[Zoner]

Well, it looks like they are going to pass a smoking ban in Minnesota for nearly every place except private homes and Indian casinos, and I, for one, am very happy about it. I was confronted with the choice a year or so ago with continuing to play in smoky bars or "retiring" (due to circumstances beyond my control). I chose to give up gigging after considering the risks and have been hoping that MN would do something like this ever since. I'd like to hear from other "weekend warriors" or pros who have seen this come to pass and let me know how it has, or if it has, affected your experience. I know as a vocalist, nothing was worse than sucking in clouds of smoke, especially when someone had a cigar going. I also hated opening my guitar case and having all my gear/clothes/body reek after a show (my main axe from my gigging days STILL stinks a bit). I'm not looking for opinions on the ban itself, just the results. Live music seems to be kinda going downhill here lately and there is much hand-wringing about the damage to business that might occur due to the ban, but I have heard the opposite result as well (business improving due to a "cleaner" environment) in New York and California. I know it sucks for Minnesotans to have to go outside for a smoke, especially in the middle of winter, but I think we can figure this out here. I'm getting ready to fire up the band once again in anticipation of this event and hope to get a real world perspective from others who have had this experience in other cities. Thanks. Z

[DavidE]

The smoking ban in Ohio has definitely taken a toll on audience size, unless you're in the Reganomics. But most bars have noticed a drop off in sales. Still, we get as many gigs as we want and the money is about the same. I'm a big fan of playing and breathing, so I'll live with a smaller audience.

[Disturber]

We've had a smoking ban for two years or so. I think it's great. As an ex smoker I had a hard time going of for a beer with smokers. If they smoked I just needed a cigarette as well. If no one else smokes when I'm drinking then I do not need to either.

Sometimes I just feel we are creating a really boring place to live in. When I was in my twenties I loved to go out and party, AND smoke! Are we killing all possibilities to live a rock n' roll lifestyle? Here in Sweden the government is coming down on sound levels in live situations, concerts, festivals, nightclubs etc. I have been to shows that had a volume ban. It is killing music. Rock n' roll is supposed to be loud, sweaty, dirty and smoke filled. That is the only way I want it, really.

One thing I find really ironic is that you American's are banning smoking, but don't ban the possibility to buy guns. ( I just don't get it, but I am not trying to start a big argument about that. Let this be a topic about smoking. )

[MCChris]

One thing I find really ironic is that you American's are banning smoking, but don't ban the possibility to buy guns. ( I just don't get it, but I am not trying to start a big argument about that. Let this be a topic about smoking. )

What America should do is ban both tobacco and booze and legalize the smoking of marijuana.

[jerseydrew]

There's a no smoking ban here in NJ too. Though I don't gig, I'm grateful that there is a ban. I'm a non smoker. I've never smoked. There's nothing worse than going out to a club or a restaurant and having your clothes stink like smoke. Not to mention second hand smoke isn't good for your health either.

IMO, if there's a drop off in business, it's just the economy.

[tafkathundernotes]

One thing I find really ironic is that you American's are banning smoking, but don't ban the possibility to buy guns. ( I just don't get it, but I am not trying to start a big argument about that. Let this be a topic about smoking. )

What America should do is ban both tobacco and booze and legalize the smoking of marijuana.

You need to take that outside, Cheech!

There's one about to be adopted here in NH too. I think the dip in audience numbers goes by quickly. There are many people who used to stay away from clubs because of the smoke that will now come out. I'm ambivalent about it because I don't smoke, but I still think club owners should be able to make reasonable accomodations on their own property. Of course, we have the volume nazis starting their bullshit now too. And band members can't drink either. This used to be the "Live Free or Die" state, until half of Taxachusetts moved up here. Now it's becoming the "Nanny-state." And you thought it was conservatives that took the fun out of everything..........

[cmatthes]

For all the bitching that preceded it, the MD and DC smoking bans really haven't seemed to hurt businesses around here.

It's been a couple of years, and the few "carve out" exceptions (a few hold out counties) all seem to be toeing the line now.

[edgar_allan_poe]

Pittsburgh is kicking this around as well. I am torn on this issue. I don't like going to bars and being bombarded by smoke, but I also don't like the Govt sticking its nose in private business.

Smoking is not illegal. IMHO a business owner has every right to run his business as he sees fit. And we have a right to choose to show up...or not.

Give the Govt an inch and they will take a mile. IMHO this is a slippery slope and I am not sure where it will go.

[killerteddybear]

Down here in So. Cal. there are lots of drinkers to take up the smokers' slack.

Anyway, a cold night here (I'm on the coast) is like 50 degrees so the smokers just step outside to suck their butts...

[Stike]

What America should do is ban both tobacco and booze and legalize the smoking of marijuana.

What I tell my non drinking, weed smoking buddies when they ask why I don't smoke grass is that just imagine if they wanted to have a drink but the only alcohol available was Wild Turkey in 8 ounce shots, no sippin', just shoot it.

But yeah legalize weed but all you goddamn hippies would have smoke that shit outside too.

[Guest pirateflynn]

Smoking is not illegal. IMHO a business owner has every right to run his business as he sees fit. And we have a right to choose to show up...or not.

I don't think that's exactly the way it goes. It's not really "The Government". It's the public saying that we respect your right to smoke but find a way to do it without affecting those who don't smoke. The business thing is tricking because there are employees and prospective employees who might not smoke. Smokers, in general, seem to be arrogant about their smoking. They proclaim their right to smoke while ignoring the rights of those who do not smoke, plus they litter like crazy.

"Viva's" up the street from me honors the no smoking law and does a great business. Mexican joint with a full bar and live music. The smokers just step out for a few.

[Mindseyes]

One of my favorite places to play in Texas is smoke free, I love it, and i havent noticed a drop off in people coming out to the shows.

[Zoner]

"Goddamn hippies"?? I guess I was trying to avoid this kind of commentary but if this needs to migrate to the Outer Circle so be it. Just wanted to hear about the effect on business and such, really. "Goddamn hippies"????? Sheesh. Z

[elduave]

"Goddamn hippies"?? I guess I was trying to avoid this kind of commentary but if this needs to migrate to the Outer Circle so be it. Just wanted to hear about the effect on business and such, really. "Goddamn hippies"????? Sheesh. Z

I'm sure Stike was kidding.

I notice that at bars w/live music, many of the patrons can be found outside, sometimes more outside than inside!

[cmatthes]

"Goddamn hippies"?? I guess I was trying to avoid this kind of commentary but if this needs to migrate to the Outer Circle so be it. Just wanted to hear about the effect on business and such, really. "Goddamn hippies"????? Sheesh. Z

I'm sure Stike was kidding.

I notice that at bars w/live music, many of the patrons can be found outside, sometimes more outside than inside!

+ 1 on Stike tossing that one in for fun.

I've also seen s big increase of the Smoking Areas outside of some clubs and bars. but these people are still buying a ticket/paying cover and drinks as before. It kind of reminds me of High School when all the smokers were banished to a small area near the bus platform...

I recently went to one of broSteve's gigs in Central PA, and although the music was great, I was ready to leave after about 30 minutes in that place, the smoke was so flippin' bad. It probably didn't help that it was only 10degrees Farenhiet outside , but it was like walking into a big ol' stinky cloud.

[Zoner]

O.K., sorry if I overreacted to Stike's comment, it's just that I have always been most closely associated with those "goddamn hippies" even though I sport the closely-cropped respectable suburban Dad 'do these days (and can't smoke ANYTHING due to my physical challenge). I'm glad to hear that a ban isn't the doomsday scenario some of the club owners are painting it to be. I, too, have heard from some of my friends that they would love to come see the band but don't want to be subjected to the second-hand smoke onslaught. Or it could be a convenient excuse, too, and they were too kind to say we sucked! Z

[BadJaxx]

i would think going to see a band and getting the crap knocked outta you would be dangerous to your health....thus i don't go to places with a mosh pit...

about 1 out of 5 drivers around here can't take a curve and stay in their lane....but i guess that's not dangerous to my health...

i could go on and on....but will finish with this...

yeah, Pittsburgh is on the brink of a smoking ban...BUT, it's ranked #2 most air polluted city in the country...right after L.A......hmmm...how about a ban on those factories polluting our air....tell me THAT's not dangerous to our health...

[DavidE]

The ban here started as a local ban implemented by Government action. I had a HUGE philosophical problem with that, but with my asthma and not a single non-smoking bar around, I was pretty torn.

Then came the challenges to the ordinance at the voting booth. Despite huge campaigns, the public voted to keep the ban. The problem was that bars near the city borders were getting killed by bars 50 ft away that were still smoking. Add to that the bars that let people smoke and just paid the fines. The crowds certainly seemed to migrate to the smoking bars.

Then came the state wide ban that was implemented by popular vote. At least it's state wide, but I'm guessing the bars near the various borders feel the heat.

I really do think that bar patronage is down since the bans went into place. I really can't understand why since most places I play have heated patios etc... to accomodate smokers. You'd think smokers would be ok to go outside for a few minutes to smoke, but apparently some can't be bothered.

Right now there's a radio ad campaign telling people that bars and restaurants all sound the same since the ban and encouraging people to go out. Obviously that's a sign that things are NOT the same and the business owners need to find a way to get non-smokers to actually go to bars (though I can't imagine it would affect restaurants as much) and to get smokers to go to bars as well.

I'm still torn on the issue, but I really enjoy playing in clean air.

[BadJaxx]

by the way....

the experts say our air pollution problem mostly stems from factories in Ohio....so let's ban Ohio!!!

i'm kidding....let's just move it to Alaska....

[edgar_allan_poe]

I don't think that's exactly the way it goes. It's not really "The Government". It's the public saying that we respect your right to smoke but find a way to do it without affecting those who don't smoke. The business thing is tricking because there are employees and prospective employees who might not smoke. Smokers, in general, seem to be arrogant about their smoking. They proclaim their right to smoke while ignoring the rights of those who do not smoke, plus they litter like crazy.

Sorry bro, I disagree. It absolutely *is* the Govt telling business owners how to run their establishments. Again, I am a non smoker, so the smoking ban will not effect me in any type of negative way. The workers argument is a red herring IMHO. I could see if the establishment was the only place in town that supplied a particular service...but that isn't the case. People make the choice to work in these bars because they make money. They can go elsewhere and make just as much. If you got into the bar tending field expecting a smoke free environment, then you are an idiot. That would be like me complaining about the fact that 99.9999% of my students stink to high heaven this time of year because they don't have a clue about hygiene.

I just played a gig last night at a notoriously smoky bar. I play there because they pay me well, and their crowd loves us. I could very easily play elsewhere, but I *choose* to play there because it is a known quantity and they take care of us. My choice. For me to turn around and bitch about the environment is goddamn unamerican.

[Guest pirateflynn]

Well then we'll have to disagree. One thing is for sure it's moving toward no-smoking more all the time.

[quimby]

There's a smoking ban quickly approaching here in Louisville KY. It starts in July and somehow Churchill Downs is going to be the only exception. I'm still kinda surprised that it was passed...being that we're a state known for tobacco farming.

To be honest smoking doesn't bother me but I am looking forward to less laundry!

I have a feeling it will impact bars here though. It seems like most everyone that goes to a bar smokes or hangs out with someone who does. I know a few guys who pretty much chainsmoke through their gigs and I have a feeling that they will really feel the impact.

[Willie G. Moseley]

Ex-smoker here, too, and whilte I think most ex-smokers are probably among the most anti-smoking, personal attitude-wise, most probably aren't crusaders about it.

The bottom line for me is I'm not so sure a complete smoking ban for clubs or restaurants or whatever is appropriate, for the reason that patronage of such establishments is optional, plus I don't know that the gov't needs to be that involved. I'll always ask for a non-smoking section table or booth at a restaurant, and most of the places I play seem to be pretty well-ventilated/air conditioned so what smoke there is usually doesn't bother me....and I play at places frequented by peers, age-wise, so they're more laid back/experienced/worn out like me. There's been some non-smoking gigs along the way, though, and I've enjoyed those a bit better.

And BTW there's this new cigarette comin' out where the manufacturer claims you can't get any type of lung irritation on accounta it's got this hyper-powerful filter on it...but what they don't tell you is that you can get a dreadful hernia off of the draw...

[Steve Haynie]

When I was in California in 1998 for a tour of the Ernie Ball factory we were taken to a bar to see Albert Lee play. All the smokers were standing outside the door on the sidewalk creating a smoke cloud that people had to pass through to enter.

In the 1980's there was an entrepeneur in Atlanta who opened the city's first non-smoking bar.

I cannot stand cigarette smoke, but...

No one is dragged into a bar. Bar owners do not hire thugs to drag people inside. Everyone enters on their own. If the smoke bothers someone, they should stay away. If someone wants to offer a smoke free bar, let them do it on their own. People who invest in a business are the ones who should make decisions on what behavior is acceptable within their establishments.

If I wanted to open a "Smoke a Guitar/Tune a Cigar" shop where everyone is expected to smoke while looking at guitars that would be my business decision. Obviously non-smokers would likely stay away, but it would be MY investment on the line.

What if someone wants to start a smokers' club somewhere? Just having a place for people to sit around smoking anything that is legal would be test of our rights.

[sw686blue]

Here in Quebec, all restaurants, clubs, bars and workplaces do not permit smoking. And that's a great thing. It's about time that I can go out for dinner or a game of pool and not come home smelling like an ashtray.