Jazzbox or Semi-Hollow for Rock?

[Halowords]

I would like to get either a big Jazzbox or a semi-hollowbody guitar for playing unplugged acoustic, plugged-in acoustic, clean rock, classic, overdriven rock, and jazz. The main emphasis would be on clean sounds, learning Jazz and Blues, and my personal favorite, nicely broken up overdrive and controlled feedback when I want it (as opposed to when the guitar wants it) through my Vox and eventually a Mesa/Boogie Mark IV when I get the money. Basically, I just want the warmest, most beautiful sounding guitar that I can get hauntingly beautiful chords, arpeggios, and melodies out of. I can adjust to size as long as I can fall in love with the sound. I love my Hamer Studio; this is just for the acoustic and semi-acoustic stuff the Studio can't do. So . . .

1) Has anybody tried a big Jazzbox as a distorted rock guitar? How practical is it for non-metal/low-to-moderate-gain overdriven rock? Oasis' song "What's the Story Morning Glory" is a good example of what I am going for on this end of the spectrum, part how the guitar breaks up but still sounds gorgeous.

2) What are my best option(s) for this ideal dream guitar? I think the Heritage H-576, a big archtop Jazzbox with a floating center block might be the ticket. However, I am open to any recommendations on ES-335 style guitars (Heritage 535, Yamaha SA2200 or AES1500, etc.), if Hamer has anything similar to what I am describing, or some other really great sounding guitar that will fit my needs.

Thank in advance!

-Cheers

[Jeff R]

I'd lean towards an Artist Mahogany. I had a black 25th Anniversary Artist Mahogany that could do all you're wanting to do very convincingly. Incredible clean and blues sounds and a throaty, tasteful midrange when you hit it with gain.

Your being a Studio junkie would also mean no learning curve to switch over to the Artist Mahogany - same size/dimensions, same archtop, same control layout, same string height relative to the face of the instrument, etc.

[Faust Wurstkotzenhauser]

I love jazz guitars... I own several and they do just what you described quite well, but at higher volumes the feedback can be a bit hard to control.

If you want something that sounds good unplugged, I strongly recommend a spruce top. The flame-maple top semi-hollow guitars sound GREAT plugged in, but they don't have the acoustic tone of a spruce-topped guitar.

My personal favorites are Epiphones. The AlleyKat is one of the best semi-hollow guitars for the buck... small and easy to handle but packs a lot of tonal punch for the size and money...

The Epiphone Joe Pass has a really nice resonant spruce top. Mine is modified with Gibson 57 Classic pickups and it sounds great from acoustic to high-gain...

The Dean Palomino packs a really great set of P-90's... 3 pickups with a 5-way switch and the guitar sounds very nice... they can be had cheaply on the used market...

Took a moment to locate this pic... but if you are in the market for something to be played mostly plugged in and willing to foot a few extra bucks, you'll find the Hamer Artist Korina is hard to beat for right around the $1K mark...

[Halowords]

"If you want something that sounds good unplugged, I strongly recommend a spruce top. The flame-maple top semi-hollow guitars sound GREAT plugged in, but they don't have the acoustic tone of a spruce-topped guitar."

How do the spruce-topped semi-hollows sound plugged in relative to the flame-maple topped? I plan to use it quite a bit unplugged if I get one in the next few months; I have a baby on the way in five weeks and one day, so volume will be an issue. Hence my need for something that sounds nice totally acoustic in the basement, living room, etc., and my consideration of a Jazzbox. That and how cool it feels to have your whole chest vibrate to an open E. However, I still want it to sound awesome plugged in, obviously. And looks are secondary to tone in my decision. WAAAAAY secondary.

As for the AlleyKat . . . Do you know the dimensions of the body? Also, what is the Gibson equivalent? No that I WANT the Gibson equivalent, but information specific to the Epiphone AlleyKat was kind of scarce.

-Cheers

[Jeff R]

This is all IMHO...

Spruce makes the attack of notes bloom in a way that sounds great clean but kind of blurred and funky in distorted rock applications.

Maple has a nice attack in gain situations but is on the too-bright side clean - the bridge pickup would need some serious use of the tone control to keep it from being spiky sounding.

A mahogany top is balanced good and has a nice warmth in both clean and gain applications to my ear. Korina - a variety of mahogany - fits this description too.

[Halowords]

Note to self: Try to check out a Hamer Artist or Hamer Artist Korina.

Hey Heritage fans . . . Any of you ever try a Heritage H-575, H-576, H-535, or H-550 as an overdriven rock guitar? How do they do unplugged, clean, and overdriven or distorted? Not looking for metal out of this guitar, just wondering how much they feedback, how they are clean and plugged in, and researching all of my options.

Thanks for all of the input so far. It is greatly appreciated and I will add the recommended guitars to my shopping list to try and check out and try to test drive at the local guitar shops.

-Cheers

[Steve Haynie]

The H-575 is totally hollow. You will have a tough time avoiding feedback with that one. It is nothing like a Gibson Byrdland, so do not think about using it for Ted Nugent tunes even though you can try.

The H-535 is like a Gibson ES-335, not totally hollow, and a little more rock friendly.

[Halowords]

The H-575 is totally hollow. You will have a tough time avoiding feedback with that one. It is nothing like a Gibson Byrdland, so do not think about using it for Ted Nugent tunes even though you can try.

The H-535 is like a Gibson ES-335, not totally hollow, and a little more rock friendly.

Good to know. Any experience with the H-550? I actually emailed Heritage directly with my dilemma and they got back to me right away and recommended I check out The Heritage H-550. They were very quick, which was cool, but obviously did not write a book listing and explaining all of the features of the guitar, why it was THE right one for me, etc.

I have thought of the H-535. Quite a bit in fact. Just wondering if one of the thicker/wider semi-hollows or hollows w/ some sort of solid block will get the same rock tunes I am looking for but still do acceptable unplugged acoustic stuff. If not, then the more semi-hollow H-535 style is fine.

-Cheers

[KH Guitar Freak]

You guys would probably say this is "cheating", but I have a Variax 700, and I love the tones you get from the semi hollow and hollowbody models...

[Faust Wurstkotzenhauser]

Note to self: Try to check out a Hamer Artist or Hamer Artist Korina.

Hey Heritage fans . . . Any of you ever try a Heritage H-575, H-576, H-535, or H-550 as an overdriven rock guitar? How do they do unplugged, clean, and overdriven or distorted? Not looking for metal out of this guitar, just wondering how much they feedback, how they are clean and plugged in, and researching all of my options.

Thanks for all of the input so far. It is greatly appreciated and I will add the recommended guitars to my shopping list to try and check out and try to test drive at the local guitar shops.

-Cheers

I have an H-550 and it works nicely overdriven, but at high volumes it is not very controllable. It would work fantastic for recording though... it has a really nice character...

[jerseydrew]

Did you ever think of trying one of the cheap Ibanez Artcore Guitars? For under $300, you can get a decent guitar. Sure it's made in China, but they're pretty good. If you really like them you could alway get new pickups.

This is an older picture, but I think you can see it.

[Halowords]

Did you ever think of trying one of the cheap Ibanez Artcore Guitars? For under $300, you can get a decent guitar. Sure it's made in China, but they're pretty good. If you really like them you could alway get new pickups.

I guess the one thing keeping me from considering an Ibanez Artcore (or the similar lower-priced models from various brands) is that I do not know what the difference in quality and sound is. In effect, what is the difference in tone and quality from a superb Gibson L5 or ES-335, Heritage H-535 or H-550, and a nice example of a more budget friendly Ibanez Artcore, Yamaha AE500, or something of that ilk? What is the drop off?

As an aside, if you have a sales pitch for the Ibanez Artcore, feel free to give it! I'll listen if you have any thoughts on them.

-Cheers

[Faust Wurstkotzenhauser]

They are all different... Every archtop I have played is different from the last one... some are similar to each other, but no two are exactly alike...

I have an Ibanez AF-105... It sounds as good as my H-550... but different... the rosewood board and the floating bridge as well as the wood trapeze piece are the most obvious differences...

This is my Guild X-170. It is the thin-body version... kind of a singlecut 335'ish guitar...

[jerseydrew]

Did you ever think of trying one of the cheap Ibanez Artcore Guitars? For under $300, you can get a decent guitar. Sure it's made in China, but they're pretty good. If you really like them you could alway get new pickups.

I guess the one thing keeping me from considering an Ibanez Artcore (or the similar lower-priced models from various brands) is that I do not know what the difference in quality and sound is. In effect, what is the difference in tone and quality from a superb Gibson L5 or ES-335, Heritage H-535 or H-550, and a nice example of a more budget friendly Ibanez Artcore, Yamaha AE500, or something of that ilk? What is the drop off?

As an aside, if you have a sales pitch for the Ibanez Artcore, feel free to give it! I'll listen if you have any thoughts on them.

-Cheers

The Ibanez is very price friendly. Is it going to be better than any of the others you talked about? No, but it really plays nice. It looks great. It has super low action. It feels great. Actually, I take that back, it might be just as good as any of the others you mentioned.

If you change the pickups, it'll be super!

[Disturber]

1) Has anybody tried a big Jazzbox as a distorted rock guitar? How practical is it for non-metal/low-to-moderate-gain overdriven rock? Oasis' song "What's the Story Morning Glory" is a good example of what I am going for on this end of the spectrum, part how the guitar breaks up but still sounds gorgeous.

2) I am open to any recommendations on ES-335 style guitars (Heritage 535, Yamaha SA2200 or AES1500, etc.), if Hamer has anything similar to what I am describing, or some other really great sounding guitar that will fit my needs.

Check out www.backyardbabies.com for some rock guitar tones on a 335. Dregen has his guitar stuffed with old band Tshirts as a cure for feedback.

I think a Newport should get you where you want to go. Killer guitars all the way!

[Halowords]

The Ibanez is very price friendly. Is it going to be better than any of the others you talked about? No, but it really plays nice. It looks great. It has super low action. It feels great. Actually, I take that back, it might be just as good as any of the others you mentioned.

If you change the pickups, it'll be super!

Any idea which model of Ibanez Artcore (or older version, the Artstar) will have the best acoustic properties while still having a sustain block (or whatever you call them) and the proper dimensions to prevent feedback, or at least make it controllable?

As for stuffing a shirt into a hollowbody or semi-hollow to prevent feedback . . . Interesting idea. How well does it work?

-Cheers

[pesocaster]

Monaco Super Pro

mine in the sig... and I play LOUD Rock 95% of the time.....

[Halowords]

More specific question . . . If I go the Ibanez route, I think I will be looking at:

Ibanez Artcore AS73 or AS83 (Currently in production)

OR

Ibanez Artstar AS80 (Older, no longer in production, Chinese made semi-hollows)

What is the difference between the two (if anybody knows)? Specifically in terms of quality, sound, etc. Any criteria for choosing one from among those choices (year, features, problems, etc.)? My apologies for this being non-Hamer.

-Cheers

[Guest pirateflynn]

The Heritage 535 is on my short list.

[Halowords]

The Heritage 535 is on my short list.

Mine too . . . eventually. With my budget and a baby on the way, while I would LOVE a Heritage, it might wait for when I have more time, money, time, and baby gates. I think the Heritage H-550, the Roy Clark, and the H-576 look awesome.

But for the immediate future, the Ibanez Artcore or Artstar might be a bit more practical for me. When I get a better job, a/o the baby is here and sleeping in a regular schedule, I will be in the market for a Heritage, and maybe a Hamer Artist.

-Cheers

[Guest pirateflynn]

Sounds like we're kinda in the same boat. Good luck with your search.

[luiss]

As far as Yamaha is named on tittle I wil give my 2 cents.

The SA line(kinda 335) with a spruce top is more a rocker than a jazzer despite his looking. Yamaha pickups are strong sound(I don´t care for them too much) and I prefer splitting sound better(push-push tone )pots.It´s heavier guitar than a 335 because the central block at least the one I was able to try.Very good guitars.

[Craig S]

I have a H535 and like it a lot.... It's won the "keeper' battle up against a Gretsch Setzer, Ibanez Artcore, Electra 2266(335 clone)... barely against the last two though.. The Artcore was a super guitar and not just for the money. The old Electra was a great guitar and it's one I wish I would have kept. The Electra's are hard to find and now start to appreciate in value. They are usually well made good playing guitars. There's been some talk of body thickness on 335 type guitars in other threads. The Electra 2266 and 2267 have the thinner bodies(1 5/8) like the Heritages, the Electra x410s etc have the 1 3/4 bodies like the new Gibson 335s. Makes me wonder when gibson made the change in thickness, th Electras were usually built before Heritage started building guitars.

[straightblues]

I have owned lots of hollow and semi hollow electric guitars through the years. They have included every type from a 17 1/2 inch wide 3 1/2 hollowbody with a spruce to all the way down the the Hamer Artist. one of them have ever given a good unplugged acoustic sound. Many have been ok, but none will be great. So I wouldn't let that be your focus. They really aren't much better than playing a solid body unplugged.

Ted Nugent plays a ES175 (full hollow) with distortion. That is about as much distortion as you can get from a full hollow. If you ever listen to his live recordings you will hear the feedback and howling on occasion. If you are going to go full hollow you will need to limit the gain and focus a lot on your placement in relation to the amp. Never face the amp with your guitar. The best spot is about a 45 degree angle from the front of the amp. Stuffing the F-Hollow with foam, towles, cotton balls or an old shirt does work to help control the feedback.

If you are going to be playing with gain, go semi hollow. Hamer Newport, althought fully hollow really acts more like a semi-hollow. From Hamer look at the Monaco, Newport and Artist. The Artist is most solid body like.

I have a Newport (spruce top with phat cats), Mahagony Artist and a Gibson ES333 (humbuckers, a budget 335). They would all work great for you.

I like the Artcore line from Ibanez if you are on a budget. Also on a budget, look for 50's and 60's Harmony, Silvertone, or Kay guitars. They made some higher end guitars during this period in addition to the junk they are most known for.

Also for a budget guitar you should look for a used Hamer Echotone from Korea. The Korean made ones are very nice for an import.

[DavidE]

"The old Electra was a great guitar and it's one I wish I would have kept."

I told ya so....