Kissology Vol. 3

[MCChris]

.... the Palace show with the "Revenge" lineup is KILLER! Bruce Kulick and especially Eric Singer really raised the bar musically for Kiss. Always hated Eric Carr's drumming, which is why I won't be buying Vol. 2. The entire "Unplugged" show is cool too, again due in large part to Kulick and Singer.

On the downside, I was extremely disappointed with the Tiger Stadium portion, which obviously was the Jumbotron feed that was going on during the concert (blank screen between songs, lame shots with no editing). The "Shout It Out Loud" clip I've seen from this show proves there was proper camerawork going on, yet there's none of it in this set. VERY lame.

Haven't gotten to the 1974 Coventry show; I'm hoping that's good. The other two makeup concerts (Dodger Stadium, Meadowlands) were OK, but too much overlap of material and (for many I'll be stating the obvious here) Ace REALLY sucks on these. I saw them in 2000 on the "first" farewell tour and he was ON that night, unless I was imagining things.

[Steve Haynie]

I was at that Tiger Stadium show. On the box it shows the set list and Black Diamond is missing, but they played that song. That was also the only night KISS played Christine Sixteen and one other song that I cannot remember at the moment.

None of the stores around here have the version of KISSology III with the Irvine, CA bonus disk.

[BubbaVO]

You have to give those guys credit. The original line up came up with a very good "schtick" (intentional use of Yiddish). Musically, well let's say that there were few brightspots.

Finally, when the original line up petered out, Gene and Paul ended up recruiting musicians that were better than the originals.

Oh yeah, and they worked harder/smarter at what they did than almost anyone else.

[kurtsstuff]

It never really was about the music as it was "the Buisness"

and raking in the dough but...some cool stuff did come out of it....

[LordOfTheThighs]

1st off, I pulled out disc 2 of my KISSology last night, and it looked like someone had been seeing how

many hops they could get skipping it across a parking lot. SCRATCHED to hell. I've never had a brand new

DVD with a single mark on it before, let alone looking like this.

The Tiger Stadium show, was the first official show of the tour. I agree that the video feed as a DVD format

is a poor choice. The playing was sub-par also, but as the first show of the tour, with 4 guys who

hadn't played together in QUITE a while, should be no surprise. I think if we were in the crowd that

night it would have "sounded" much better.

Now the 4 or 5 songs on the MTV VMA show were super tight, and played as well as you could play them. One

of my favorite parts on the DVD set. You could see how much a difference a couple of months of touring together

had sharpened them up.

The Dodger Stadium Psycho Circus show was pretty good. Nice camera work. I saw that tour also, and

gotta say ... the 3D effect from the jumbotrons was plain weak. It was comical looking back from the 3rd row

at the mass of humanity with those dumb-ass looking paper glasses on.

Unplugged is an awesome show. I remember watching it on the original broadcast, and my jaw hit the floor

when Ace and Peter came out. That was right before the internet took off, and you could still keep a surprise, a surprise.

The overlap of material is annoying, but most major bands have a core group of songs, that they think they HAVE

to play. As a fan, I'd much rather hear "Flaming Youth" once, than "Shout It Out Loud" for the 500th time.

KISS has a TON of songs, that 99% of the audience would cream their jeans over, if they played them. Gene

and Paul always blamed Ace and Peter for the limited setlist, saying they couldn't play the obscure stuff. Yeah, right.

I still haven't got watch all the discs yet.

But so far ... I like KISSOLOGY III. Not as good as #1, but more than #2.

[MCChris]

FYI from the Kiss site:

"Got this off the Kiss website.

"My name is Fran Congelo and like a good KISS Army soldier I went and bought Kissology 3 today. So far I have found 3 easter eggs that I thought I'd pass along. They are all easy to find and can be found in the same place on the first three discs. At the main menu, press up once and the word "Kissology" will be highlighted. Press enter. Disc 1 has footage from the Carnival Of Souls recording sessions. Disc 2 has a rehersal clip from the Brooklyn bridge performance. And disc 3 has the Millenium concert from Vancouver, where the clock strikes midnight and we get the full performance of "2000 Man"."

[Steve Haynie]

The overlap of material is annoying, but most major bands have a core group of songs, that they think they HAVE

to play. As a fan, I'd much rather hear "Flaming Youth" once, than "Shout It Out Loud" for the 500th time.

KISS has a TON of songs, that 99% of the audience would cream their jeans over, if they played them. Gene

and Paul always blamed Ace and Peter for the limited setlist, saying they couldn't play the obscure stuff. Yeah, right.

Ace and Peter could do their own material on their solo tours. Ace would play Strange Ways at his own shows. That would have been cool to see at a KISS concert.

A good addition for KISSology III would have been the last show with the original line-up. It was in Charleston, SC. Peter destroyed his drum set at the end of the show.

[elduave]

I really wanted II 'cause of the Largo '79 bonus disc (my first KISS show) but the 1st one I bought had the wrong bonus disc and so did the others when I tried to exchange. So, if anyone has II with Largo bonus, I'll buy it off ya.

SH, I believe KISS performed Christine Sixteen on Letterman w/Gin Blossoms.

I'll have to check out the hidden stuff...

[DEMENTED]

Which one has them playing at a wedding?

[Steve Haynie]

Which one has them playing at a wedding?

That should be the second volume because it fits the time period. The guys were jamming at Ace's wedding without makeup.

[DEMENTED]

Which one has them playing at a wedding?

That should be the second volume because it fits the time period. The guys were jamming at Ace's wedding without makeup.

Yeah, that's it, I need that one.

[alantigold]

Which one has them playing at a wedding?

That should be the second volume because it fits the time period. The guys were jamming at Ace's wedding without makeup.

Yeah, that's it, I need that one.

Nope - it's volume one. It's on the second disc - Ace & Jeanette's wedding, May 1, 1976. The first disc has "Deuce", I think, from the Coventry show that's on volume 3 in its entirety.

The second volume has a video of Eric Carr in the hospital (after the final credits), an interview w/Mark St. John, and I saw somewhere that there's a way to watch the "God Gave Rock & Roll To You" video w/o the credits rolling over it.

Alan

[LordOfTheThighs]

Nope - it's volume one. It's on the second disc - Ace & Jeanette's wedding, May 1, 1976. The first disc has "Deuce", I think, from the Coventry show that's on volume 3 in its entirety.

The footage of Ace & Jeanette's wedding leaves quite a bit to be desired, in the film quality. The footage

looks awful, very blurry and shaky. But as a fan, I'm extremely thankful to be able to see it at all.

[alantigold]

The footage of Ace & Jeanette's wedding leaves quite a bit to be desired, in the film quality. The footage

looks awful, very blurry and shaky. But as a fan, I'm extremely thankful to be able to see it at all.

Thanks - I meant to mention the quality, or lack thereof. It's old movie footage, and it's kind of funny to see that second-grade classroom badly threaded film roll in there. But, as you said, it's great to have footage of an event that a lot of us fans heard about but never got to see.

Alan

[BCR Greg]

I'll be hanging with Ace Friday night, I'll ask him what his favorite stuff is on those DVDs. Outta be a fun time.

[sirDaniel]

I was fully paid member of the KISS SUX unfan club. I still don't see anything good in them.

[alantigold]

I'll be hanging with Ace Friday night, I'll ask him what his favorite stuff is on those DVDs. Outta be a fun time.

I'm jealous! I went to meet Ace at a record store signing in the 80s, but I was on lunch and the line was way too long to wait. I'd love to find out some of the real scoop about what went on behind the scenes with some of that stuff. The new DVD mentions that the Unplugged reunion almost didn't happen because of some 'legal issues', but never says what they were or who caused them. It's pretty clear that they're saying it was the Ace & Peter camps, but they never say more than that (and I haven't looked to see if there are any details anywhere). There was some dispute when 'Kiss My Ass' came out because they didn't use Ace's makeup, and a lot of people took it as a shot at Ace. Gene blamed it on Ace, saying he owned the rights and wouldn't let them use it. It came out later that, supposedly, a lawyer in Ace's camp tried to get a big payment for the use and they wouldn't pay, and supposedly Ace knew nothing about it. I'd love to get the real story about a lot of that stuff, but I guess much of it has been lost in the mists of failed (and damaged) memories.

But I'm still jealous!

Alan

[BONEDADYO]

I know I'm about to piss off a lot of Ace fans, but......

First off, let me start by saying that I am a huge Ace fan. Just like many others in my generation, Ace influenced me quite a bit. He may not have been the greatest, but what he did he did well.

But what I watched on those reuinion gigs was an Ace who is only a shell of what he once was.

I was actually embarrased at his solos. WTF??!! It seems as if he tanked almost every solo at the TS show. I guess I would be more satisfied with the explanation that drugs & alcohol have caused brain to muscle damage. But the alternative is that this is someone who was satisfied with what he got, abused it, then got lazy with his playing and just stopped giving a damn. If that's the case, then I have really lost respect for him.

I know that Gene & Paul are clearly about the money...and I was never a fan of the Bruce Kulick era. But they did become better singers/musicians. They tried to better themselves. And it did show. But that was not KISS to me.

I seen them live on the reunion and "farewell" tour with Ace & Peter. I was hearing some bum notes, but It was also VERY loud & I was just happy to see them back together. But watching these DVDs really reminded me about the bashing that Gene & Paul have said about Ace, which I don't like either. But to have a second chance like they ALL did & then to have a piss poor attitude, as well as playing lousy... I just don't know!

It's funny, I seen Frampton a few months back 2 nights in a row. The first show, he was SMOKIN! Completely blew me away! Second night, he was in a bad mood but still played his ass off. These were both VERY small venues for a guy, who at one time, was selling out stadiums around the country. My point? Here's a guy that's approx. the same age as Ace, playing his heart out to about 900 people around a pool. Ace is selling out large venues AGAIN, and doesn't care. It's just good enough.

There are guys who just get better & better with age, because they love their instrument. Plain & simple. I just wish Ace would have been one of them. Just an opinion.

One last quick note. What really made it painfull was watching the Coventry show (earliest recorded KISS performance). Here was a VERY young Ace playing loud, mean & lean! I wonder what he would have been if he continued to grow as a player & kept his heart in it... That's the sad part.

[Jason01]

I think it was last year that Kiss was in the VH-1 rock honors. Ace played sans make-up with a compilation group before kiss came out and played. I would love to know if Gene and Paul knew beforehand that Ace was going to be there onstage. It sure seemed odd to see him there and Tommy Thayer there playing in full "Ace Frehley" mode. Plus, at the closing credits Ace was jumping up on Gene and you could tell from his expression that Gene was not happy about it. Ace made me want to be a lead guitar player before I even knew what a lead guitar player was and it would be damn cool just to meet him and say thanks. Its strange that Kiss isn't recording albums anymore. For as long as I can remember I've been listening to them and it kind of became a soundtrack to my life since I could always remember times in my life in relation to what album they had done.

[cmatthes]

I'll be at the JAXX show tomorrow night - already got my tix.

Ace was one of the two players who inspired me to play. Like him or not, he DID get a lot of kids into picking up a guitar. My first nice guitar was an "Aceburst" LP Custom (now my 3-pickup Blue Sparkle) that I slaved and scraped for.

Many of us are still hacking away 30 years later thanks to that guy, no matter what he's done or what his low points have been over the years! I hear his newfound sobriety is supposed to be having a very positive impact on his playing. He always brought much-needed humor to the dickwad Gene $immons in interviews ("Awk!!").

I'll be sure to post a review post show...

Jaye - you going?!?!

[alantigold]

To reply to Bonedadyo's post...

I have not watched the Tiger Stadium show yet, but I've read (either in the booklet or in a review elsewhere) that it was not a great show for the band as a whole. For the first show in a tour, let alone the first show as a band in 18 years, I'm not surprised by that, so I wouldn't necessarily use that as a milestone.

But, as I recall, comments were made about how Tommy Thayer had to teach Ace his parts for the tour, and I know I've read comments where Ace said he had trouble relearning some of the parts from the records because of how weird they were. What I took from that was not so much that Ace couldn't play those parts anymore, but that Gene and Paul wanted things to sound just like the records (and I believe that was explicitly stated somewhere in an interview). I'm not a fan of that mode of thinking in the first place - the studio is one thing, live is another. It's one thing to be somewhat faithful to the original solo, it's another to be slavishly faithful. If you listen to "Alive!", there are quite a few deviations from the records. That seems to have gotten lost since the reunion tour (although I've heard some variations in solos, especially length, here and there). So it may be less a case of not developing as not be allowed to show any development.

Someone else mentioned the VH1 Rock Honors thing - Ace didn't look washed up that night. I think sometimes Gene throws some of this stuff out to direct attention away from the other issues (like people who don't accept Tommy Thayer in Ace's makeup - like me!).

Alan

[BCR Greg]

Ace has been sober for 18 months. Anything before that is questionable. His heart is in it again.

[cmatthes]

Ace has been sober for 18 months. Anything before that is questionable. His heart is in it again.

That is great to hear.

[Steve Haynie]

I'll be hanging with Ace Friday night, I'll ask him what his favorite stuff is on those DVDs. Outta be a fun time.

The new DVD mentions that the Unplugged reunion almost didn't happen because of some 'legal issues', but never says what they were or who caused them. It's pretty clear that they're saying it was the Ace & Peter camps, but they never say more than that (and I haven't looked to see if there are any details anywhere). There was some dispute when 'Kiss My Ass' came out because they didn't use Ace's makeup, and a lot of people took it as a shot at Ace. Gene blamed it on Ace, saying he owned the rights and wouldn't let them use it. It came out later that, supposedly, a lawyer in Ace's camp tried to get a big payment for the use and they wouldn't pay, and supposedly Ace knew nothing about it.

Peter was under contract to Tony Nicole Tony Records when he left to do the KISS reunion. They put out his CD and got him a decent tour bus. That may have been one obstacle. Peter never "finished" his business with the record company before he was on tour with KISS. They may have seen the Unplugged show getting in the way of promoting the album in which they had invested a chunk of money.

At the KISS expo in Atlanta around the time KISS My Ass came out Ace told the audience that his makeup was not used because he would have had to be paid for the use of it. That year Ace was talking about how cheap Gene and Paul were. The Unplugged show was still a couple of years away.

BTW a friend in Atlanta was the first person to show Ace the hidden message from Gene and Paul under the tray in the CD case. She said he just looked at it for a minute or two but did not say a word.

To reply to Bonedadyo's post...

I have not watched the Tiger Stadium show yet, but I've read (either in the booklet or in a review elsewhere) that it was not a great show for the band as a whole. For the first show in a tour, let alone the first show as a band in 18 years, I'm not surprised by that, so I wouldn't necessarily use that as a milestone.

I was at that Tiger Stadium show. It was a perfect show. If there were problems the band never let on. That show was the first of the tour, but the first performance in makeup was two weeks earlier at the Irvine Meadows show. That one was not a full set, and it is on the bonus disc that I still have not found anywhere.

[David B]

BTW a friend in Atlanta was the first person to show Ace the hidden message from Gene and Paul under the tray in the CD case. She said he just looked at it for a minute or two but did not say a word.

Very cool, I never noticed that.