Marshall envy

[backinit]

Growing up where I did, you either owned a Fender amp or a Marshall amp. Don't ask me why. That is just how it was. My first real amp was a Fender and I still own one today. The one I own today is SS, but it still produces some nice sparkly clean tones.

I feel a little deprived never owning a Marshal amp. So much so I catch myself looking at some of the hybrid and SS heads that are available.

So tell me the good, the bad and the ugly about Marshall heads.

Go ahead, I can take it.

[Feynman]

Marshall rocks! What else do you need to know?

Some may suck, and some may shine, but they all rock, and they all have the look.

Get thee a Marshall, and crank it up.

Hope that helped.

[atquinn]

Marshall rocks! What else do you need to know?

Some may suck, and some may shine, but they all rock, and they all have the look.

Get thee a Marshall, and crank it up.

Hope that helped.

Mods, can we move this post to the Ask the HFC Experts section?

-Austin

[harry65]

there is nothing to this day that can beat an old plexi or jcm 800 head thru a 4x12 for pure balls to the wall rock tones, catch is ya gotta crank em and they are brutally loud but it is something every player should do at least once in their lives..............................

[backinit]

Marshall rocks! What else do you need to know?

Some may suck, and some may shine, but they all rock, and they all have the look.

Get thee a Marshall, and crank it up.

Hope that helped.

Mods, can we move this post to the Ask the HFC Experts section?

-Austin

Yes, please do.

Thanks Austin.

[veatch]

I still have a JCM 800 that i've had for about 20 years. Harry65 is right - fookin' loud, but it sounds too good to give up. I don't gig with it anymore, it is simply a "Saturday afternoon, and the wife and kids are out, let's rawk" amp.

The 18 watters sound pretty killer, too, but a different vibe.

Edited fore spelink.

[Hackubus]

Over the years, I'd half ass it when it came to a Marshall. I've had some pretty crap Marshall products. I should have just sucked it up & got a JMP or a JCM 800 back then & been done with it. So, I'd like to recommend a used 50watt JMP or JCM800.

In other words, YMMV, IMO, etc... avoid the Valvestate & MG Marshalls and go the full monty on a 2204 of some sort. Sides...if you hate it, you can always flip it for about what you have in it.

[Thundersteel]

Marshall DSL 50--go for it!!

[elduave]

So tell me the good, the bad and the ugly about Marshall heads.

Good: They're Marshall's. If you want that sound, that's the best way to get it. They sound great.

Bad: Some QC issues on recent models.

Ugly: Nothing, really.

Definately get a tube model. 800, 900, DSL, TSL. I get lots of compliments on my TSL.

[MCChris]

Mods, can we move this post to the Ask the HFC Experts section?

-Austin

Why? This isn't a bench report, a lesson or an audio guide.

Using your logic, I guess these threads, among others, should be moved here as well:

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36174

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36159

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36151

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36143

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36154

[Siaip Ciuvas]

I guess the main problem with the Marshalls is that there are millions of earless tools who failed to dial in "that" sound and where blaming amps, not themselves. I use JCM800 every day and even it has only 5 knobs to turn, it takes some time until you understand how to get really great tone (but you can get good tone easily cranking all of them to eleven ). I have heard that JCM900s are crap, but once I used one 1x12 combo found on rental backline and fell in love with it! I have had JCM600, now its touring and recording with one great Lithuanian guitarist (I had to sell it to rise money for JCM800 ). Even DSL401 was a kickass amp, and you can get them in UK for really small money! So yeah, my word would be try getting full valve one and you should be ok.

[Feynman]

Mods, can we move this post to the Ask the HFC Experts section?

-Austin

Why? This isn't a bench report, a lesson or an audio guide.

I'm *pretty sure* Austin was making a most clever joke about my response to the question...and I believe it was mistaken as a real request. The fact that it actually ended up over here makes it more humorous to me though. I am basing this on the fact that he quoted me and that he is a funny MFer.

[BubbaVO]

Mods, can we move this post to the Ask the HFC Experts section?

-Austin

Why? This isn't a bench report, a lesson or an audio guide.

... and that he is a funny MFer.

there's no confusion about that. : )

[atquinn]

I would have put in a , but that wouldn't have been nearly as funny.

-Austin

[Guest pirateflynn]

Be careful what you ask for ...

[hamertek98]

Be careful what you ask for ...

That's funny, too...

[silentman]

Apparently, Mitch may be an expert at sucking at electric guitar.

[carfish7]

I'll add my Marshall "I've seen the light" moment to the discussion.

I used to think Marshalls kinda sucked, because my experience with them was the JCM800 combo I owned and the JCM900 combos that were everywhere back in the day. I named my JCM "Sybil", because it had so many different personalities. One day it sounded almost decent, then an hour later it would be total poo - then come around again later in the day. A service did nothing to change this pattern. It moved on quickly!

Then, I had occasion to join some friends at an informal jammer back in '95 or so, and arrived with my new (to me) checkerboard Special in tow. I was directed to plug into a Roland Jazz Chorus 120, while my buddy wandered over to an old, tattered Marshall head sitting on top of a Jackson 4x12 cab. I didn't really groove on the JC ( they dare call that "distortion"?) and my buddy was having all kinds of trouble with his Howard Roberts Fusion jacked into the half-stack(howwwwll!), so we switched.

I plugged in the Hamer and proceeded to crank the gain and turn the beastie way down. It sounded thin, weak, and lifeless. "This old thing sucks", I thought to myself. Then the owner wandered over, gave me a funny look, and said something to the effect of "what the hell are you doing to my amp, you're strangling it!"

His next move was to DIME the master volume, bass, and presence controls, set the rest at noon, and adjust the volume with the pre-gain control! He dialed it in a bit too loud, then reached over and dropped the Hamer's volume knob to about "7" and said "This is your distortion control. Roll it full on when you want to solo".

Wow. It was the sound I had heard on all my favorite albums, and to finally stand in front of a 4x12 and feel that kick in the chest while all those upper-mid frequencies were swirling and dancing around me was like being led to the mountaintop and given some secret key to enlightenment. Crunchy, but clear and ringing, and this top-end that was pure sugary sweetness. It was the single best tone I had ever had, and opened up a new door for me where "playing" an amp was concerned. The only downside was that it was damn loud, but it was so very worth it. It made playing a much more tactile experience and spoiled me big-time.

The amp in question was a mid 70's (?) Master volume unit (JMP I think?) in 50 watt trim - whatever the first master-volume series was, this was it. It was a cool looking, tattered fawn color and had all the stock tubes and tranny's. It had one sound, but it was THE sound. I have totally dug Marshalls since and have owned several, including a 2554 Jubilee combo that was the bomb until it was "serviced" and never sounded the same. As a fan of "little" amps, I have also owned and enjoyed the JTM30 and the DSL401 combos run in the same manner - max the master and use the pre for the "loud".

I think that when the Marshall sound went from power tubes distorting to preamp gain and then clipping diodes, the appeal lessened immensely for me. To my ears, the Marshall sound is found on the albums of the 60's and 70's, while the Kazoo tone that came out of the later models is the signature sound of the shred era - one that drove me further backwards in my tone quest. I like the Boogie preamp drive tone MUCH better, and currently employ a MKIIC+ for that sound, and a 20 watt Mesa that I can crank for everything else. If I saw a cheap JTM or DSL40, I'd be tempted to get one though.

Some Marshalls rule. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Z

[Brooks]

the jtm's sound great, but have the exploding tranny syndrome

(sounds like the title to the worst porno ever). i also had a jcm800 combo, it sounded pretty good.

[Feynman]

Apparently, Mitch may be an expert at sucking at electric guitar.

I'm expert at sucking at a lot of things; don't pigeonhole me!

[Guest pirateflynn]

There are a lot of builders out there these days but it would hard to find one that has dedicated himself to the classic Marshall tone and construction more than Greg Germino. He would be my first choice when considering a 35watt - 100 watt Marshall. There is a fair amount of info on his website.

Germino Amplification

[Brewmaster]

The 18 watters sound pretty killer, too, but a different vibe.

Edited fore spelink.

Wanna bet?

Edited to add: Ernie Santella put up a reveiw of the amp I sold him. I hate to brag, and I rarely do, but his review is typical of the feedback I have been getting.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...1x12+Combo/10/1]

[veatch]

I'm certain i'd lose that bet...

Dan, trying/getting one of your amps is definitely on my list. Hopefully later this year...

Back to the point: To me, the EL84s seem to have a little more "shine" on them than the EL34/KT66/6L6 big glass. Dunno why, and my ears are tin, but to me, the feedback (the good kind) seems to build more from the top than from underneath, the way the 45/50/100 watt Marshalls tend to do fer me. Of course, a lot of this has to do with the speakers/cabs, too...

Anyway, both are good, but to me they seem to react different.

And from what i've heard, you have every right to brag.

[Guest pirateflynn]

Definitely .. lower watt variants are a GREAT way to go depending on your headroom and volume requirements. I've owned two (Masonette and Firstborn) with 6V6s and EL84s respectively. Both sound like killer non-master volume Marshall's. The evolution of Marshall Amps included different tubes and circuits and sound different within the spectrum of the signature Marshall tone.

I too have heard raves about 18 watt Hoagland Amps!

[Brewmaster]

Back to the point: To me, the EL84s seem to have a little more "shine" on them than the EL34/KT66/6L6 big glass. Dunno why, and my ears are tin, but to me, the feedback (the good kind) seems to build more from the top than from underneath, the way the 45/50/100 watt Marshalls tend to do fer me. Of course, a lot of this has to do with the speakers/cabs, too...

Anyway, both are good, but to me they seem to react different.

And from what i've heard, you have every right to brag.

You are correct about the tonal quality of the el84, they have more top end. You call it shine, some call it chime. I think the best dominant feedback comes mainly from the upper mids. From there the harmonics feed off of each other to the upper and lower frequencies and create much of the tonal, high quality feedback people crave. The trick is balancing this charactistic with classic crunch that is the driving force of most Marshall based amps. EL34's are the tube of choice for the desired tones and crunch in most cases. Some folks like the old JTM45 with the old KT66 tubes. Some like the 5881 found in the reissues. I think they are a different beast but they are always brought up in any Marshall conversation. While many can duplicate the circuit(s) of the old Marshalls, the tubes and trannies are another issue. I could go on forever but I won't. There are a lot of opinions on this stuff and I like to avoid the techno weenie psycho babble. I am willing to share my knowledge and I am willing to do so, just offline. Please PM me or email me with any questions.

There are a lot of builders out there these days but it would hard to find one that has dedicated himself to the classic Marshall tone and construction more than Greg Germino. He would be my first choice when considering a 35watt - 100 watt Marshall. There is a fair amount of info on his website.

Germino Amplification

Germino is one of if not the best IMHO. Roccaforte is up there as well.

[Hamer95USA]

I'm currently gigging with a '92 6101 30th Anniversary 1x12 combo amp. It has 3 channels which covers my clean/crunch/lead duties in my cover bands. The clean tone is quite good, but not quite Fender while the crunch & lead channels are very high gain. No need for overdrive boxes on this bad boy!! The fact that it can also go from pentode/triode and 100/50/25 watts makes it a versatile little guy at rehearsals & gigs. I like running it set on pentode/low power setting (50 watts) for club gigs and triode/low power (25 watts) for rehearsals. The direct out on the amp is handy for interfacing to the P.A. system as well.

Guitar George