OK , I'VE HAD IT , I GIVE UP

[harry65]

just got back from a gig , so friggin tired of hauling my recto cab, my crate vc50 head, my backup bassman head , my pedalboard, my bag of cables, it's heavy and a pain in my glutes, so somebody tell me why i should spend $2000. on an axe fx and is there something cheaper that sounds as good as i hear people telling me this sounds, i mean 2 grand on an amp modeller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! still i'm very intrigued , i love my tube amps but i am tired of hauling them around , anyone here own an axe fx??????????????????????? thanks dudes........................

[gorch]

So what the homepage says, it seems to be a 'real thing'. I guess the decision will be whether to sound identically to the originals or having your own profile.

Unfortunately, people are so much into preservation that they may not honor individualism any more. So, you've got to take your axe.

[Scooter]

The guitar player in my cover band has an AxeFX. It really is an amazing unit. The sounds are drop-dead awesome!

BUT...he still lugs a lot of gear. The AxeFX is in a rack with a few other items. Then there's the head he uses for power (a Guytron) and a Mesa cab. Plus a giant control pedal board.

Now, he's trying to program it to be a stand-alone piece to run through the PA, but he programs it at home and then it sounds WAY different when it's actually running through the PA.

All in all, the AxeFX is amazing, but it requires a lot of time to get "right".

[Brooks]

i have one, it sounds darn good.

i haven't gigged w/ it yet, but have recorded.

the idea is that its excells as an all in one modeller (amp/cab/mic),

so its supposed to sound best like scooters pal is using it

(straight into a P.A. or recording desk).

i'm using mine w/ a carvin SS rack amp and a 2x12,

which is a bigger rig than the combos i'm used to.

i plan to tweak it for direct out if i get into a gig

where i could use it (like my stalled out rush tribute,

which requires a bunch of different sounds).

its overkill for my original band, where i only use 2 or 3 tones.

i like the idea of having every amp and FX tone i'll ever need

in one tubeless box, but at this point i'm on the fence about whether its overkill for my needs.

it is cool, tho.

edit- something 1/2 way between my old superchamp xd and my axe-fx rig would be perfect;

maybe a lightweight 100w SS head w/ less bells and whistles;

just 3 or 4 good clean to heavy tube tones, a tuner, and a few FX.

guitar player mag just gave the new marshall mg100hfx head an editors pick award,

which is basically what i just described.

[harry65]

i have one, it sounds darn good.

i haven't gigged w/ it yet, but have recorded.

the idea is that its excells as an all in one modeller (amp/cab/mic),

so its supposed to sound best like scooters pal is using it

(straight into a P.A. or recording desk).

i'm using mine w/ a carvin SS rack amp and a 2x12,

which is a bigger rig than the combos i'm used to.

i plan to tweak it for direct out if i get into a gig

where i could use it (like my stalled out rush tribute,

which requires a bunch of different sounds).

its overkill for my original band, where i only use 2 or 3 tones.

i like the idea of having every amp and FX tone i'll ever need

in one tubeless box, but at this point i'm on the fence about whether its overkill for my needs. it is cool, tho.

cool bro, in all honesty i only use two or three sounds as well , clean/edge of breakup rythym, very slightly overdriven lead and more overdriven lead , maybe i just need a nice real compact 1x12 in the 30-50 watt range, perhaps a lonestar special or dr z , one thing i do need is a power block for a backup.........................................

[silentman]

I've had an axe-fx since october. I have used it for recording and straight into a PA on a gig. A midi pedal was all I brought besides the rack case. I have sold off all my amps. I love it but YMMV. Try a line 6/digitech/boss unit and see if you can get along with one.

[marcus2]

I saw Dweezil Zappa play a bunch of different tube amp on the Zappa Plays Zappa tour 2 years ago.

When I saw him 2 weeks ago, he had the AxeFx.

That says a lot, IMHO.

Marc

[custom53]

I've had an axe-fx since october. I have used it for recording and straight into a PA on a gig. A midi pedal was all I brought besides the rack case. I have sold off all my amps. I love it but YMMV. Try a line 6/digitech/boss unit and see if you can get along with one.

Have played thru a couple of digitech 2112s and 2120s ( I think thats right). Sound great but very expensive and time consuming to set up. The Line6 stuff is crazy cheap for what you get and I have to admit they sound great. And they are easy to use. I still am staying analog but then again I am not hauling equipment every weekend either.

[Brooks]

i use mine w/ a 2 button footswitch (up & down presets).

not very flexible on the fly, but i wanted to avoid a big footboard.

i figured out what tones i needed (in this case, for the rush tribute),

then i placed them side by side in a logical order

(which meant duplicates of some lead sounds,

as sometimes a rush tune goes from OD rhythm to lead, sometimes clean chorus to lead, etc).

i also spent a few days going thru ALL the amp sounds only to discover that i *really* liked just 2 of them

(a VH "brown", and a fenderish "brownface" for clean). i tried a few OD pedal sims

(like a treble booster into a vox for a "queen" tone, etc), but still preferred just the 2 amp sounds alone. you can tweak these w/ tube sag, damp, etc but its all VERY subtle (IMFO). i had a similar experience w/ the roland VG8 (just liked a few of the hunderds of sounds), although the axe-fx sounds waaay better than the VG8.

in defense of the axe-fx, i have expirenced 1st hand the difference between liking a tone by itself in your room

vs the same tone not working in a full band mix, etc. so, the flexibility could come in very handy for someone who records a lot or needs a bunch of different tones (like a cover band, rush/U2 tribute, etc).

right now mine is just sitting unplayed upstairs, as all i'm doing currently is acoustic gigs.

i think its a great unit, but i'm seriously thinking about cashing it in so i can upgrade my motorcycle.

[burningyen]

I'm agnostic about tube vs. analog SS vs. digital. But you know, there are are lighter tube options out there than 2 heads and a 4x12 cab. Why not something like a 1x12 combo and a Powerblock as backup?

[harry65]

I'm agnostic about tube vs. analog SS vs. digital. But you know, there are are lighter tube options out there than 2 heads and a 4x12 cab. Why not something like a 1x12 combo and a Powerblock as backup?

yeah i'm thinkin that might be the way to go , just love the sound of my mesa cab though(2x12) , i need that fender sound or maybe vox, maybe a deluxe reverb with a speaker change , i definitely need a powerblock.......................

[Monacosis]

Brooks, thanks for your impressions on the AxeFx. answers a lot of my questions about these things.

mike

[Hgb5000]

I think the axe-fx is really cool, but I don't have the skills to justify an axefx, nor do I want to spend that much $$ right now on such a unit. As a compromise, I just bought a Digitech RP-1000 and it has a lot to offer for only $500.00. It can be used with an amp, in stereo, direct to the board, etc. Some of the amp models sound great and the effects work really well. I am sure it does not touch the axe-fx, but at 1/4 of the price I think it is something to consider.

[BubbaVO]

Another option - although I'm sure its not as good as the axe-fx - is the VOX Tonelab.

Here are some reviews:

http://www.houseknecht.net/post/Vox-ToneLab-LE-Review.aspx

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...Tonelab+LE/10/1

[silentman]

Indeed the Axe is very tweakable. It's hard to understand what has an effect on things at first. I cut my teeth in on guitar during the 80s so I am very comfy on rack processors (the digitect 2112 and johnson milleniums are very similar to the axe in how you set them up) so if you are not afraid to delve into menus, have at it. But be prepared to take the time to get what you want. Even with the other stuff mentioned, there is little instant gratification.

[Brooks]

i should also say that tho i don't use much FX, the FX on the axe-fx are very kickarse.

studio & stomp comps, tape & dig delays, envelope & auto sweep (or pedal) wha, super tweakable flanges and chorus, even talkbox sims and trippy special fx, on and on...

i read ty tabor of kings x has replaced his entire fx rack w/ an axe-fx, even tho he uses randall modular tube amps and egnator cabs.

[silentman]

I agree, Brooks.

[holLoWskull]

I'm agnostic about tube vs. analog SS vs. digital. But you know, there are are lighter tube options out there than 2 heads and a 4x12 cab. Why not something like a 1x12 combo and a Powerblock as backup?

yeah i'm thinkin that might be the way to go , just love the sound of my mesa cab though(2x12) , i need that fender sound or maybe vox, maybe a deluxe reverb with a speaker change , i definitely need a powerblock.......................

I've been using a Vox AD60VTX Valvetronix 1X12 combo w/ the optional VC-12 foot controler for a few years in my cover band. I think it's the best of both worlds if you're on a budget...good amp models, decent built-in effects, built-in tuner w/ bypass, actual tube in the POWER AMP section, and best of all...39 lbs. Regretfully Vox stopped making them a couple years or so ago, and replaced them with a less expensive (and in some regards inferior) line of new Valvetronix amps. The good news is that you can usually score a used AD60VT, AD60VTX, AD120VT, or AD120VTX for around $500 (sometimes w/ the VC-12 foot controller included!). The Fractal most likely is a better sounding and far more advanced unit, but it is pricey. If you want a good sounding amp that has Fender, Vox, Marshall, Mesa, Soldano, and Dumble sounds all modeled into it for under $500 used, the 'blue cloth' Vox VTX series is worth a look anyway.

[SteveB]

Your ability to lighten the load with an AxeFx depends on what you want on stage. If you can be satisfied basically not having the wind behind your back and listening to your rig purely through monitors, then the AxeFx with a controller board plugged into the PA will lighten your load alot. Many people going that route also have their own powered monitor for consistency and so they don't depend on the sound guy so much, or for the time when they prop it up in the backline for small gigs.

If, OTOH, you require the feeling of guitar cabs blowing behind your back, you arn't going to get much weight savings. For those that don't like playing just through monitors, you still need to use a power amp and cab of some sort, although that will change somewhat when ever the Fractal/Atomic FR finally comes out. You won't save much weight that way, but you WILL have what amounts to the ultimate "Road King".

At the moment I have my AxeFx setup like this, running into a Mesa Theile. Its really not that much of a pain to drag around, and whiile not giving you quite the 4x12 kindof feeling it definately gives you the "real cab blowing air" kindof feeling. I have a Carvin TRXN12 monitor coming in soon to try out too for full range application, or as a monitor combined with the Theile for backline.

I use a Powerblock for backup. It can be backup for either the AxeFx or the Poweramp. One cool thing I discovered recently is that the powerblocks cam sims are always running, even with the guitar input. While that seems odd, it does have the interesting effect that even if I was using a full range speaker like the TRXN12, if something went down, I could still plug the PB into the TRX and it won't sound like shite.

My goal is "one rig to rule them all". As soon as my MOTU 828mkII is repaired it will go into the rack to work not only as the MIDI/Recording interface, but also general purpose mixer. I'm going to start messing around with MIDI/synth stuff and will evenutally use an Axon AX100 in the system as well. So, I want to setup one system that can handle guitars,bass, keyboard sounds, vocals, etc etc.

[childeatingsnow]

I've given up on amp setups more times than I care to admit but can't get away from including tube amps in some form or fashion. I used to swear by a single Marshall half stack with zero effects which led to two half stacks with multiple floor effects. This eventually morphed into a stereo Rivera head accompanied by two Matchless 4x10 cabs. I have even tried out Guitar Rig with an external power amp and cabs. You lose all of your dynamic response in the virtual world. I have never really been satisfied with any of the modeling technology that has been available, and while I haven't actually tried the Axefx product, I always end up feeling like I have wasted my money when gambling on the new all-in-one solutions on the market. I guess that it really comes down to what you are trying to pull off and what you expect out of your rig. Lately I've been pretty happy with a combo duo but if you are stuck on the larger amps then you might consider a couple of 2x12's with a stereo tube head.

[hamerhead]

I've used the a bunch of amp/speaker/pedal combinations. I've used C30s, Tech21s, a JSX head with different cabs, etc etc etc....... At the moment, it's a Boss GT-3 into a PowerBlock and 2x12 Mojotone cab.

I've used the GT-3 long enough (8 yrs?) to have it pretty well dialed in and, as long as you have clean power, your amp is less of a factor (we're talking 'live' in a cover band here). The trick is to put a tube amp model at the end of the chain. I didn't believe it either until I tried it.

After torching a C30, I went to solid state amps and no listener has complained. The JSX sounded great, but was a TANK!! 54 lbs of Peavey goodness. I grunted it around - in an amp case - for about a year and finally said the hell with that! And my old Fenders don't leave the house anymore.

Speakers have a much greater effect. I have a single 12 cab if I want to go really light, but the Mojotone is about the size and weight of a 4x10, has decent 'whoomp' to it, and is tall enough that you're not standing on your head to make adjustments. This one - loaded w/ Vintage 30s - is a keeper.

Bang-for-the-buck has got to be the Tech21 stuff. Super light-weight and sounds great. I still use a Power Engine at practice. 60W of clean, clear, EQable power - perfect for modelers like the Boss. Guitar->modeler->PE60 - it doesn't get much more portable, reliable, light-weight, and versatile than that!

[jwhitcomb3]

The trick with going digital is really digging down into the capabilities of your system. Many of these modeling amps or rack units are designed to cover a lot of ground, but may not be satisfying if you are looking for one particular sound.

So the first step is to find out what a piece of digital gear does best. If you like Marshall tones, go for a digital rig that gives you a wide palette of them. I've always been a Fender amp guy, so naturally I gravitated to their amps. But the sound of the Cyber-Twin left me cold. The Cyber-Deluxe was a completely different story.

Sometimes the difference between a good sound and a great sound can be subtle: re-ordering components on your system (such as whether the tone stack is positioned before or after the preamp). Sometimes the best sounds are at the edges: for instance, the Vox model on my Cyber-Deluxe is clean sounding for 80% of its range, and never breaks up heavily on its own. But if I push some more juice through it with the gain stage of the compressor, it opens up a whole new range of overdriven sounds.

Similarly, the "modern" (= Boogie) models are set up for very high gain, but if I minimize the gain stage and boost the volume at a later point in the chain, I can get some great light breakup sounds (albeit with more noise than I'd like).

Also, some of the models are useless unless the tone controls are set appropriately. Sometimes that means setting the bass or treble way lower than I'd ever do it in a conventional amp.

Even models that I originally thought were useless (why would I want a model of Fender's solid state amps?) have proven fertile ground for some unexpected tones.

Next, input trim can be a huge factor. Many of these digital amps have a "sweet spot" that can be pretty narrow, and setting the input trim can bet the difference between an anemic or rich sound. If you only ever run your guitar's volume knob at full throttle, you may be missing some very tasty voices in your digital rig.

Finally, you have to adjust your mindset. While it is possible to get sounds that rival the best analog rigs, the path you take to get there may be very different. Throw out what you "know" about analog rigs and spend some time learning what works best with your specific digital rig.

For the first year I owned my Cyber-Deluxe, I thought it was a fun toy. Over the years, I've tweaked my settings (and have different banks for each guitar) to the point where I simply love the sounds it creates. It's the result of countless hours of tweaking. But when I go to a gig, I pack my guitar, my amp, and a MIDI foot controller, and I'm set.

-Jonathan

[velorush]

^^ is a great post. I have been noodling with the TM60 for a couple of weeks now and, like Jonathan said, I'm finding best results when I ditch my preconceived notions about what I think will sound good and just tooling around with it (like your example of the SS Fender models). I can say that so far I am getting much more instant gratification out of Channel 1 ("clean") than Channel 2, especially in a live context. You've inspired me to go back to square one on channel 2, forgetting what the manual calls the presets. Thanks.

[harry65]

great insight guys, what i always get here, thanks, not sure i wanna ditch the tube amp thing , i'm thinkin maybe a 30-50 watt portable(40 lb range) 1X12 with a nice internal speaker may be the way to go with a powerblock as backup , i'm looking for a fender sound and may just get a deluxe reverb and stick a weber in it but if anyone has any suggestions for fender type amps perhaps with better build quality that are not over $1000. please feel free to chime in , am also curious about a mesa lonestar special.............