Hamer News?

[edgar_allan_poe]

But, clothes don't make the man.

And in this case the man, quite literally, will not make the clothes.

That being said, I wouldn't expect Armani to make me a pair of basketball shorts.

[cmatthes]

Not hindsight at all. Jol has been reading this board for years, and knows exactly what his most loyal customers want. I am sure he has also received direct feedback from many of us here, and elsewhere.

Still, he has decided to go for what he likes, hoping that enough demand exists for that.

I have been very surprised to see that, until now, he has been actually successful doing that. I truly hope he continues succeeding, because that would be an amazing story and he deserves it, but I really doubt it.

This all assumes that the HFC represents the majority of Hamer's market. It doesn't. True, we have a heavy concentration of die-hard Hamer fanatics here, but there are many more people out there who are buying Hamers and have never heard of this place, the Gear Page or any other online forum. A dealer like Bob Wilcutt sells more Hamers than anybody in the world, and has for YEARS. I'll bet that if he polled his Hamer customers, only a tiny percentage would be HFC members (compared to probably 50+% who are Gear Pagers). I'm not pretending to speak for Jol or Hamer in any way, shape or form, but to think that the concentration of Hamer devotees here drives the Hamer market is a little bit arrogant.

That being said, I think that a lot of the things we discuss here ARE given consideration to some degree, but by the same token, I'm confident that 75-90% of the people who complain that Hamer doesn't (insert your favorite thing that Hamer doesn't currently offer) wouldn't pony up the money for something anyway. Sure, boomers are awesome, but people screamed when they were a $575 upcharge. I paid it because I wanted them on my guitar, but a good number of the people complaining about those wouldn't spend more than $1k on a Hamer anyway.

Until MY name is on a headstock, I'll assume that the people who have been running a cool guitar company for the last 35 years might know a little more about how to do their business. I'm not driving the bus, and won't be a backseat driver either!

And in this case the man, quite literally, will not make the clothes.

That being said, I wouldn't expect Armani to make me a pair of basketball shorts.

VERY well put, Rob! My only caveat is that I'll bet that for the right price, Armani WOULD make you some basketball shorts. I'm willing to bet that Hamer would do the same, but the problem would be finding somebody to pony up. There are members here who have gotten some amazing, and in many respects groundbreaking custom orders fulfilled. If you want something, be prepared to pay for it instead of complaining that they won't make it for you on YOUR terms and price.

Credit where credit is due here, people.

[GaryT]

I hear you Bro, but I believe you missed my point. When I made reference to Hind Sight being 20-20. I simply meant that there are guitars that would not have ever been built had all this been done over.

Maybe I'm missing something here.......

I also disagree to a point with Jol simply building what he likes[this has been mentioned a "few" times on this thread].

When you begin manufacturing anything. Its NOT to build what you like. Its to build what you believe in your heart through rational, educational thinking: what "OTHERS" will like and need. Though the design may be all your own. Such as the case of the Telecaster for example.

If the point of any this was simply to build what YOU liked. Why would you need to go into business? You would simply build what you like and F--K the rest of the world. Many of us do this as I speak.

If the meaning of this statement is that everyone acts in thier own self best interest first and foremost? I agree Totally.

Just a little confusd over this...

The worries of Hamer exists for many reasons, most personal. If yours is simply "will you be able to buy a Hamer in the future"? Most definatly. Why would you not? You could buy original 1978 on up Hamers in every single model for a decent price as we speak. I don't usually follow the 80's Super Strat designs with Boomers so I may be wrong on that. But I've seen evrything else in the past two weeks from 3-pick-up T-51s to late 70's Sunbursts, T-62s, S-Models, Koa Mirage Is, 12-strings. There been a LOT of rare Hamers around recently.

[SteveC]

And in this case the man, quite literally, will not make the clothes.

That being said, I wouldn't expect Armani to make me a pair of basketball shorts.

VERY well put, Rob! My only caveat is that I'll bet that for the right price, Armani WOULD make you some basketball shorts. I'm willing to bet that Hamer would do the same, but the problem would be finding somebody to pony up.

So, uh, Hamer will now be making custom basketball shorts (for the right price, of course!) Sounds like a major shift in strategy!

Seriously, the only thing we know for sure at this point is that Hamer has (for now) suspended production of "stock" instrument models, but will make custom orders if the customer agrees to the price Hamer quotes.

It appears anything beyond that is just speculation, eh? Since I haven't heard any rumblings about government bailouts for the music industry, I suspect free-market forces will ultimately determine what Hamer produces and what pricing structure the market will accept...irrespective of what we, Hamer or Jol think.

In the meantime, I'm just REAL glad I have the Hamers I do, and I hope the guys in CT are able to work something out so they can continue to practice their craft and build quality instruments that the market can accept and afford.

[GaryT]

And in this case the man, quite literally, will not make the clothes.

That being said, I wouldn't expect Armani to make me a pair of basketball shorts.

VERY well put, Rob! My only caveat is that I'll bet that for the right price, Armani WOULD make you some basketball shorts. I'm willing to bet that Hamer would do the same, but the problem would be finding somebody to pony up.

So, uh, Hamer will now be making custom basketball shorts (for the right price, of course!) Sounds like a major shift in strategy!

Seriously, the only thing we know for sure at this point is that Hamer has (for now) suspended production of "stock" instrument models, but will make custom orders if the customer agrees to the price Hamer quotes.

It appears anything beyond that is just speculation, eh? Since I haven't heard any rumblings about government bailouts for the music industry, I suspect free-market forces will ultimately determine what Hamer produces and what pricing structure the market will accept...irrespective of what we, Hamer or Jol think.

In the meantime, I'm just REAL glad I have the Hamers I do, and I hope the guys in CT are able to work something out so they can continue to practice their craft and build quality instruments that the market can accept and afford.

AMEN

[Devin]

I honestly wish Hamer would become a true "anything goes" custom shop.....i'd literally sell half of my guitars (including my USA Diablo) if it meant I could spec out a brand new custom Cali

[cmatthes]

I honestly wish Hamer would become a true "anything goes" custom shop.....i'd literally sell half of my guitars (including my USA Diablo) if it meant I could spec out a brand new custom Cali

You can.

You'll have to be prepared to pay a ton for it ($10k, maybe more?), but you can certainly spec it out if you're serious. If you're thinking that it'll be a $5k (or less) guitar, then I wouldn't bother them, but if you truly want one, then call and set that ball in motion.

[MCChris]

You can.

You'll have to be prepared to pay a ton for it ($10k, maybe more?), but you can certainly spec it out if you're serious. If you're thinking that it'll be a $5k (or less) guitar, then I wouldn't bother them, but if you truly want one, then call and set that ball in motion.

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

[HSB0531]

This thread sure does have legs.

[veatch]

...ands knows how to use them....

[Moose]

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

Yes.

[GaryT]

LOL...There it is!

[jettster]

You can.

You'll have to be prepared to pay a ton for it ($10k, maybe more?), but you can certainly spec it out if you're serious. If you're thinking that it'll be a $5k (or less) guitar, then I wouldn't bother them, but if you truly want one, then call and set that ball in motion.

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

Exactly...

Guitar

This would be less than half of that and in a similar league quality wise. Why would a Californian cost more than an Improv unless to discourage orders?

[MarkF786]

Many of the best custom built guitars sell new in the $4k - $6k price range with a few up to $10k. Though I love Hamer and am impressed by their build quality, I don't think they can compete in those price ranges. Is their quality as good? Maybe... comparing my Hamers to my customs (D'Pergo, Koll, Teuffel) they are pretty close in quality, but my customs all have something over the Hamers in various regards. Do they have the reputation? I don't think so; most people would choose a well respected custom builder over Hamer.

The fact that Hamer builds quality guitars seems like a well kept secret (and probably that's why their resale value is so low). I don't know if it's just me, but for a long time I had a unfavorable impression of Hamer guitars due to all the cheesy guitars they made in the 80s & 90s, seemingly aimed at metal guitarists (sorry, I realize there are some members in this forum that love those models). Only in the past few years did I realize there was another side to Hamer, with their classy, more traditional styles.

I think Hamer will have a tough time convincing buyers that they should consider Hamer when buying a custom guitar. It would almost be better if Jol left Hamer and started his own custom shop, similar to how many now famous custom builders got their start working for another well known company but setting out on their own.

Mark

[marcnorth]

You can.

You'll have to be prepared to pay a ton for it ($10k, maybe more?), but you can certainly spec it out if you're serious. If you're thinking that it'll be a $5k (or less) guitar, then I wouldn't bother them, but if you truly want one, then call and set that ball in motion.

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

Exactly...

Guitar

This would be less than half of that and in a similar league quality wise. Why would a Californian cost more than an Improv unless to discourage orders?

Only problem with that guitar is it doesn't say Hamer on the headstock and it doesn't look as good.

I believe like Chris says if you want to pay for it they'll build it. They agreed to build me a 4 string VBass with a V headstock and I have to say it was a bit high price wise but not unrealistic. I was real close to ordering it but after giving it a lot of thought I wound up getting another B4M instead. I really got more of what I like for less so to speak. B4M's kick ass.

It was only because I was afraid I would have another love/hate relationship with a V. Gibson made a VBass many years ago that sounded like shit and those can cost almost as much as I was quoted for a Hamer.

It won't bother me if they turn into a custom shop only because if I really want it I'll order it.

I just hope they survive and keep making great basses.

[atquinn]

You can.

You'll have to be prepared to pay a ton for it ($10k, maybe more?), but you can certainly spec it out if you're serious. If you're thinking that it'll be a $5k (or less) guitar, then I wouldn't bother them, but if you truly want one, then call and set that ball in motion.

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

Exactly...

Guitar

This would be less than half of that and in a similar league quality wise. Why would a Californian cost more than an Improv unless to discourage orders?

Suhr's coming out with a setneck Modern as well (this winter NAMM from what I understand) and it's going to be expensive as hell! Anyone that would expect Hamer to build a similar guitar for less is dreaming.

-Austin

[mirrorimij]

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

I apologize in advance for another speculative post (I said I wasn't going to do that). I think the price has to be high enough to cover the opportunity cost of what can't/won't get built in lieu of the custom Hamer. I don't think the Hamer staff is sitting around doing nothing and patiently waiting for our order. They are probably off working on other projects. If someone needs to break away from working on BRAND X to build a custom Hamer, it means some units of BRAND X don't get built. You lose all economies of scale if your custom requires new tooling, programming of the CNC, etc. It will require time (sometimes a LOT of time). If one custom Hamer means 10 units of BRAND X don't ship the one Hamer has to have as much profit in it as those other 10 units. Even though the Hamer pricing may seem out of whack to some of us they probably have to charge those prices to avoid leaving money on the table.

[gorch]

I can see it now:

Concert canceled due to software virus.

Harddrive crash ruins Freebird solo.

Bootup delays Rock Festival.

I can only think of a Microsoft blue screen or...

...there have been an update installed reboot starts in a minute.

Security alert: you catched the porn worm

[serial]

I don't think that the touring Rockband thing is out of the realm of possibility. Around here, Karaoke nights are bigger than ever and after a gig last weekend, the bar owner told us we're one of the few bands he'll book anymore and he's cut back to one band night a week (Fridays) because he does so well with Karaoke on Thursdays and Saturdays.

An AI-style "So You Wanna be a Karaoke Star" would not surprise me-and neither would a Guitar Hero/Rockband Tour with all of the $$ those franchises take in.

[HSB0531]

So is the price that high because of cost of labor and materials, or is it set that high to discourage orders?

I apologize in advance for another speculative post (I said I wasn't going to do that). I think the price has to be high enough to cover the opportunity cost of what can't/won't get built in lieu of the custom Hamer. I don't think the Hamer staff is sitting around doing nothing and patiently waiting for our order. They are probably off working on other projects. If someone needs to break away from working on BRAND X to build a custom Hamer, it means some units of BRAND X don't get built. You lose all economies of scale if your custom requires new tooling, programming of the CNC, etc. It will require time (sometimes a LOT of time). If one custom Hamer means 10 units of BRAND X don't ship the one Hamer has to have as much profit in it as those other 10 units. Even though the Hamer pricing may seem out of whack to some of us they probably have to charge those prices to avoid leaving money on the table.

Mirrorimij:

+1 on that.

Coming from someone who was in the speaker building business.

We did a custom set of stereo cabinets ( rather large, at 5'h. x 2'w. x 3'd. ) exactly to the customers specs.

It took way too long because there had to be custom jigs built, extra planning, and the sourcing components that we didn't use in production, from suppliers we never use.

Different construction techniques had to be used also, with different finishes and applications.

[gorch]

The other day I read an article about all that Activision game stuff, especially GuitarHero was interesting to read about. They, Activision, make the contracts directly with the bands. Saying, that the whole music industry is locked out of the game. Not a bad return in an already billion dollar market.

Next step for them could be producing any popular signature guitar for the millions of home-players. Then Gender and Fibson would be happy to find their logo on the headstock to compensate for lost guitar sales and a diving guitar market.

[burningyen]

mirrorimij, that's not really speculation at all, I think we've heard versions of that basic explanation from Hamer at various times over the years.

[jettster]

Exactly...

Guitar

This would be less than half of that and in a similar league quality wise. Why would a Californian cost more than an Improv unless to discourage orders?

Suhr's coming out with a setneck Modern as well (this winter NAMM from what I understand) and it's going to be expensive as hell! Anyone that would expect Hamer to build a similar guitar for less is dreaming.

-Austin

I would fully expect a new production set neck Californian to cost more than a bolt-neck Suhr. My point was that the realistic cost for either, should be similar.

I highly doubt a Suhr setneck Modern will command anywhere near 10k and it's just as outlandish to think that a Californian should either. As to who is dreaming, you need not look any further than the resale values to see that Hamer guitars have been overpriced for quite sometime now.