Another sign of "no love" for Hamers

[specialk]

I love Hamer's quality and attention to detail. As I won't be able to afford a new one for the foreseeable future, I'm personally thankful for their low prices in the used market. But when a Hamer Artist sells on ebay for $560:

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39332

I gotta wonder about the marketing aspect of Hamer.

[BlueRedWhite]

I love Hamer's quality and attention to detail. As I won't be able to afford a new one for the foreseeable future, I'm personally thankful for their low prices in the used market. But when a Hamer Artist sells on ebay for $560:

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39332

I gotta wonder about the marketing aspect of Hamer.

+1

I LOVE Hamer, it is my standard to measure all the other brands

it just makes me sad to see it gone a bit on the side because of their choice of going custom. But if that's was their original mision...well, let's wish them good luck...i'm worried that if they are only targetting baby boomers, once they're gone, and since Hamer might not be very know among newer generations of musicians, they will fall into oblivion...

maybe that's actually the plan...

[HSB0531]

Except for one that I built, I still own every bass and guitar that I bought.

So, I don't care what the resale value is.

I don't buy a bass for its resale value.

I buy it for me.

I'm not in the business of selling.

I'm in the business of playing an instrument that I appreciate.

I don't buy-n-flip buy-n-flip.

I buy thinking 10-20-30 years down the road, will I still appreciate and enjoy this.

That's why, a new Hamer purchase will never be expensive.

Because I'll still have it 30 years from now.

Buy-n-fliping over 30 years will cost me a lot more money simply because of the depreciation.

Here's an example of what I bought New since 1974:

1973 Fender P-Bass $200.00

1977 MusicMan Stingray $400.00

1980 Fender P-bass Special $450.00

1981 Hamer Standard Bass $1,400.00

1982 Fender Walnut Elite II $750.00

1983 Fender 57 Re-issue P $350.00 (dealer cost).

1986 Fender 62 Re-issue P $400.00 (dealer cost).

2009 Hamer Standard 12 custom Order (not received yet) $*,***.**

All total, in 35 years of playing, including the Hamer on order my investment is less than $9,500.00.

That's $271.43 per year.

I still use them all.

I rotate playing them, so I've only had to do 1 fretjob.

Each one is a little different and a different color , so I never get bored.

It's like buying throw-a-way plastic forks & knives and paper plates verses keep it forever Oneida flatware and dinnerware.

Sure, initially the Oneida plates/flatware is a lot more expensive, but in the long run it's cheap.

Quality stuff will always be more expensive in the short run, while being cheaper in the long run....as long as you keep it.

[jisham]

Except for one that I built, I still own every bass and guitar that I bought.

So, I don't care what the resale value is.

I don't buy a bass for its resale value.

I buy it for me.

I'm not in the business of selling.

I'm in the business of playing an instrument that I appreciate.

I don't buy-n-flip buy-n-flip.

I buy thinking 10-20-30 years down the road, will I still appreciate and enjoy this.

That's why, a new Hamer purchase will never be expensive.

Because I'll still have it 30 years from now.

Buy-n-fliping over 30 years will cost me a lot more money simply because of the depreciation.

Here's an example of what I bought New since 1974:

1973 Fender P-Bass $200.00

1977 MusicMan Stingray $400.00

1980 Fender P-bass Special $450.00

1981 Hamer Standard Bass $1,400.00

1982 Fender Walnut Elite II $750.00

1983 Fender 57 Re-issue P $350.00 (dealer cost).

1986 Fender 62 Re-issue P $400.00 (dealer cost).

2009 Hamer Standard 12 custom Order (not received yet) $*,***.**

All total, in 35 years of playing, including the Hamer on order my investment is less than $9,500.00.

That's $271.43 per year.

I still use them all.

I rotate playing them, so I've only had to do 1 fretjob.

Each one is a little different and a different color , so I never get bored.

It's like buying throw-a-way plastic forks & knives and paper plates verses keep it forever Oneida flatware and dinnerware.

Sure, initially the Oneida plates/flatware is a lot more expensive, but in the long run it's cheap.

Quality stuff will always be more expensive in the short run, while being cheaper in the long run....as long as you keep it.

And I bet ALL of those Fenders have increased in value.

Some people buy stuff to keep forever; others like me enjoy buying things, then flipping them for something else. There's validity to both approaches depending on who you are and what you want.

When I want a different kind of guitar, I first look to see what the street price for a new one is. I then look on eBay, TGP etc. to see what they sell for used. I then make the decision whether to buy a new one or wait to find the used one I want. When there's a huge disparity between new/used, it's a no brainer to go for the used.

And to me, that's Hamer's current challenge, especially if they plan to only take custom orders. But hey, I'm sure they have some reason to believe that's the track to follow and I certainly am in no position to say whether it's a viable business plan or not. I just know I won't be buying new Hamers.

[ArnieZ]

I'm still wating for an official announcement that Hamer will be a custom shop only, and whether that means you can order instruments that were previously "stock" at the going rate or total customs.

ArnieZ

[HSB0531]

Quote:

And I bet ALL of those Fenders have increased in value.

Some people buy stuff to keep forever; others like me enjoy buying things, then flipping them for something else. There's validity to both approaches depending on who you are and what you want.

When I want a different kind of guitar, I first look to see what the street price for a new one is. I then look on eBay, TGP etc. to see what they sell for used. I then make the decision whether to buy a new one or wait to find the used one I want. When there's a huge disparity between new/used, it's a no brainer to go for the used.

And to me, that's Hamer's current challenge, especially if they plan to only take custom orders. But hey, I'm sure they have some reason to believe that's the track to follow and I certainly am in no position to say whether it's a viable business plan or not. I just know I won't be buying new Hamers.

Great!

That works for you and a lot of people.

As I've said before, we both/all get what we want.

But a new Hamer is not a mass produced item, and because of many things: Wood selection, components, method of build and quality of same, finishes, etc, they will continue to get more expensive.

Used Hamers are a steal though.

There's plenty of choices at great prices.

For me, having a custom built bass, going over the options with Greg @ BCR and finally getting the Hamer 12 that I've wanted for 31 years is worth every penny.

It will be exactly what I want at a price far below anything PRS, Gibson, Huber, or anyone else could build at that quality level with the wood quality and the options (even if they could or would).

And, you get to see it being built and documented:

Much Love for Hamers!

[GaryT]

Bad Marketing is all it is my Brothers.

An ARTIST selling for $560. is just foolishness. Guitar Center here gives $800. on a trade in for them?

They turn right around and put them up on the wall with the Vintage Electrics with a $1800. tag on them. And they get it! Not sure how much they haggle but I'm sure a bit anyway.

How many used Hamers do you see at Music Shops? Not many! IN CT they sold for $800-$900 back in 01-02. I paid $900 for MINT Artist Custom back in 01. I went looking for a LP? And bought the AC. Couldn't even compare it to a LP-Standard. Quality was like day and night. These ARE gonna go up in price. Theres not a doubt in my mind about that.

[HSB0531]

Bad Marketing is all it is my Brothers.

An ARTIST selling for $560. is just foolishness. Guitar Center here gives $800. on a trade in for them?

They turn right around and put them up on the wall with the Vintage Electrics with a $1800. tag on them. And they get it! Not sure how much they haggle but I'm sure a bit anyway.

Exactly.

The quality of a used Artist is way above $560.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

I'm not really complaining about Hamer prices.

I think I might be an excellent example of what is wrong with Hamer's marketing, though.

I got into Hamer when I saw a beautiful guitar in a pawn shop. It had a good sound, and was $200. It was made by some company called Harmony or Hondo or Hamer...you know: one of those companies that makes crappy guitars but might have a semi-professional line or two just to have something to attract the ignorant.

But it was a beautiful looking, sounding, and feeling guitar. For $200, it was just about the best guitar I'd ever played on. I had a Carvin that was pretty much its equal, but the Hamer had an extra sweetness in its tone...and an extra growl when played with a bit of distortion.

So I researched Hamer. And researched Hamer. And researched Hamer.

I finally found out that what I had was a Korean import version of a dang nice USA-made guitar that wasn't that well-known.

So I started buying other import copies.

(The next bit of stupidity is an atypical interlude: the lunacy is mine and mine alone)

I was trying to find a great guitar at a rock-bottom price, something I could collect without breaking the bank. Maybe something good quality that just hadn't take off yet. But I was tired of some of my miscalculations that came from overestimating a guitar's worth. So I got a Guitar Blue Book.

My problem? I believed the numbers in it.

The only way I'd pay $800 or $1000 for a guitar was to flip it, and I believed the Blue Book when it said the guitars were worth close to $2000.

Well, I didn't lose money on either sale...made $30 and $80, respectively.

What it did for me, however, was two things:

1) It got me to join and hang out on this board, dedicated to Hamer.

2) It loosened me up a little bit in what I was willing to pay for a guitar. My limit went up to $400...then $500...then $700...$900...and even nearly $1100 for a Centaura I had fallen in love with at first sight.

I know the $1100 Centaura won't play much differently than the other Centaura I got for $350 (or the ones I got for $500). It does have the Boomers and it is a Deluxe...so maybe it is worth it. It is worth it to me, though, and that's all that counts.

But do you see what happened?

I hang out on a board dedicated to Hamer. I read daily, and post almost as much. I have 8 Hamer USA guitars. I have another 4 import Hamers, and have owned/sold another 2 USAs and 4 imports.

In those 8 USA and 4 import Hamers, I have just about all the Hamer I want. There are a few things that could tempt me: the legendary tree-fiddy USA Hamer of almost any description; an $800 Cali; a $500 FM Special Quilt; a $400 sustain block Special that's cosmetically beat up; a $700 Jeff Watson.

But for all my postings, all my buying and selling of Hamer guitars, all the Hamers I'm keeping, and even all the guitars I would still buy if I stumbled across the right price: how much profit would Hamer see from it?

Not a single thin dime.

Sometimes I feel guilty about it.

If I ever finish the damn book I'm writing and it earns at least $100k (I'm not certain which occurrence is actually more unlikely, to tell the truth), I'll treat myself to a custom-ordered Jeff Watson.

[HSB0531]

If I ever finish the damn book I'm writing and it earns at least $100k (I'm not certain which occurrence is actually more unlikely, to tell the truth), I'll treat myself to a custom-ordered Jeff Watson.

Nathan:

I know how you feel.

I've been here since 2004 and this is my first new Hamer in 28 years.

I felt guilty for some time now.

And all the great pics of really cool custom orders and great used deals, really twisted the guilt knife in my gut!

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

Plenty of people here on HFC have been saying that for years: get Hamers into the hands of CURRENT popular guitarists.

Seeing Kaki King live was what put me over the edge to shop for a Hamer. It was partly her variety of sounds from a variety of Newports, and it was partly seeing the beauty of the Newport close up in person.

The low used prices are not limited to Hamers. I agree that a big part of the problem is a lack of clear brand identification as a high quality semi-custom USA made product. However, the economy is certainly a huge part of the problem. I see USA made Hamer products as appealing to a higher income and older purchaser, not a 19 yr old unmarried college kid. Folks like me who have family obligations will find it more difficult to buy a new Hamer today than a few years ago when the economy was hot. But the young bucks who are attracted to the iconic LP or Strat will still buy those products. IOW, the demand will sag more at the high end than at the low end during this economy.

The new Hamers seem to be a step up even from just a few years ago in terms of quality and innovation. The price is justified, but tougher to pay right now.

[mirrorimij]

The new Hamers seem to be a step up even from just a few years ago in terms of quality and innovation. The price is justified, but tougher to pay right now.

+1

[HSB0531]

I had most of the money last year and placed an order.

I don't think I could've done it this year.

The quality is definately at the top.

[jisham]

I had the most of the money last year and placed an order.

I don't think I could've done it this year.

The quality is definately at the top.

Your bass is gonna be seriously bad ass. Congrats.

[GaryT]

The new Hamers seem to be a step up even from just a few years ago in terms of quality and innovation. The price is justified, but tougher to pay right now.

+1

+1 I prefer the Hamers with the Vintage neck carves. I don't know that the quality is better than say the 90's. But I definatly like the neck carves now.

[KH Guitar Freak]

Nevertheless, I still love how some people drop their jaws when they find out that the guitar I'm rocking out on is a "Hamer"...

[Hamerweizen]

Nevertheless, I still love how some people drop their jaws when they find out that the guitar I'm rocking out on is a "Hamer"...

My drummer (hey give him a break - he's a drummer) is always happiest when I show up for the gig with a Gibson Les Paul. The first time I brought a Hamer to practice, he's going, "Hamer? What's that? Who plays those?" Well, me - for one.

[JGale]

HOLY HEADSTOCK BATMAN!!

[serial]

Much Love for Hamers!

Holy Shit Dude!!! Awesome!

[Submariner85]

You stole my name

Not true, since I have never heard of you . . . but since you have 1936 posts I will yield the name to you.

My name is for my MusicMan SUB bass, and I detest the Bengals. And, I am SUBmariner on TGP.

Now how do I go about changing my username without going through the arduous registration process?

How should I pick a new name? A contest? "Subhunter?" "Destroyer?" "ASROC?" Nawww . . .

LOL, no need to get mad. I was joking.

[HSB0531]

I had the most of the money last year and placed an order.

I don't think I could've done it this year.

The quality is definately at the top.

Your bass is gonna be seriously bad ass. Congrats.

Thank you Sir.

Nevertheless, I still love how some people drop their jaws when they find out that the guitar I'm rocking out on is a "Hamer"...

My drummer (hey give him a break - he's a drummer) is always happiest when I show up for the gig with a Gibson Les Paul. The first time I brought a Hamer to practice, he's going, "Hamer? What's that? Who plays those?" Well, me - for one.

I had a drummer who used to favor a blue bass that I played.

Not because it was a Fender Precision.

But because it was blue

HOLY HEADSTOCK BATMAN!!

Jol wouldn't do a Stadium Logo.

So we settled on a Stadium Headstock

[HSB0531]

Much Love for Hamers!

Holy Shit Dude!!! Awesome!

Thanks Steve.

Mr. Platzer is responsible for that top.

[specialk]

Jol wouldn't do a Stadium Logo.

No Stadium logos from Hamer anymore?

[HSB0531]

That's what I was told.

I ordered the MOP inlaid logo.

So maybe they only do Hamer decals in the Stadium size?

I don't know.

Edited to add: I'm a HFC veteran now....woohoo

[ac15]

A lot of it probably has to do with resale value, or just the ability to resell at all . A few years ago I wanted to trade a couple of my guitars to a music store to get a Gretsch White Falcon. One guitar was a Monaco III and the other was a 1985 Made in Japan pink paisley Tele. They said they'd take the Tele but had no interest in the Hamer. As great as they are, they're niche guitars that would probably remain unsold for longer than they were comfortable with.