So, time to write Hamer's obituary?

[gorch]

I wish I had the dough to put down a custom order right now.

All I can say is, "hang in there", to Jol and they guys. I am pretty sure as time passes Hamer guitars will be just as appreciated as, let's say, what a Gibson 58 JR, is today. It was not to long ago these guitars could be had for very little. Good quality will pay of in time.

Good old German traditional luthier Hoyer is comparable to Hamer. Prices on their excellently crafted 70s production lines are rock solid. Rare to get Gibson copies made with a level of detail and quality as we know it from Hamer today. They are said to be better than the originals.

[edgar_allan_poe]

Tacoma was making VERY FINE instruments when Fender closed Tacoma and moved production to Ovation

I couldn't disagree more with this. I am a big Guild fan and have been since I bought my first DV52 dred back in the day. That was an amazing guitar. The Guilds that I played that were Tacoma made were absolute dogs in comparison. Granted, I am using a very small sample of guitars to judge a company, but man they were bad.

I have played a few of the new ones and I have to say that I am impressed. If they continue in this direction it could very well bring Guild back into the acoustic market in a big way.

[harryjmic]

Until Hamer can garner more interest in their brand other then the 30 guys who post here they will eventually die. I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

I only have a Newport Pro right now but would like to get a 2-pu korina Junior or Special what ever they call it.

[adgc]

Hamer is not making STOCK instruments at this point. They are still making CUSTOM ORDER instruments.

Does that also include Hamer offshore production?

Schecter and Dean really came back from the dead in the past several years.

Parker now owned by Washburn.

I'm just saying....

[DaveL]

well... Hamer is owned by... Kaman music? And they got bought out by FMI, which in the past has done a great job of buying up and then ruining brands. Jackson was bought up and pretty much everything but the custom shop and the high end USA models was shipped overseas.

Disagree... Charvel Jackson's previous owners did plenty of

damage to that name long before Fender came into the picture.

Fender is selling thousands of Charvel USA pro mod guitars

with strat headstocks with a $999 list... possibly the best deal in

a USA built guitar right now.

[tbonesullivan]

Hmm... well at least they are trying. It's sad to see where Kramer is now... pretty much internet only through Gibson's own site. Though, they did have a USA made model a year or two ago that was very reasonable.

Where do you buy charvel guitars anyway?

[cmatthes]

Until Hamer can garner more interest in their brand other then the 30 guys who post here they will eventually die. I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

I only have a Newport Pro right now but would like to get a 2-pu korina Junior or Special what ever they call it.

If anybody thinks that Hamer depends on "the 30 guys who post here" (or even the several thousand total members), they are grossly mistaken. Only a small fraction of the Hamer guitars made every year are ordered by board members. Talk to Bob Willcutt or Dave Rogers and ask those guys how many of their customers have ever heard of the HFC, and I'm pretty sure that it will be very few - probably a single-digit percentage.

It's a much bigger world out there!

[anotherfreak]

Just order something!

If you think they are dead in the water, you will miss out on what they are doing as a "Custom Shop" They are building all the guitars they can to keep up with massive amounts of custom orders from dealers. They build as many guitars as they can and build them at a level where they can be meticulous anout the quality. That's one of the reasons so many are sold just by the pictures, people know what kind of guitar they are getting. And they are getting them.

I see demand raising the prices. Pretty soon they will be WAY out of my price range, but not out of the range of most guitar buyers.

I see a custom oeder on my horizon, and I appreciate what they are willing to pull off as a "custom shop"

[edgar_allan_poe]

They are building all the guitars they can to keep up with massive amounts of custom orders from dealers.

Do you know this as a fact or are you speculating? I find it hard to believe that this economy would permit anyone except a select few to have "massive amounts of custom orders".

[Thundersteel]

I couldn't disagree more with this. I am a big Guild fan and have been since I bought my first DV52 dred back in the day. That was an amazing guitar. The Guilds that I played that were Tacoma made were absolute dogs in comparison. Granted, I am using a very small sample of guitars to judge a company, but man they were bad.

I think he may have meant the Tacoma guitar line, not Guilds made in the Tacoma factory.

I have a Tacoma Chief, and it's one of the best acoustics I've owned.

[BCR Greg]

If you think they are dead in the water, you will miss out on what they are doing as a "Custom Shop" They are building all the guitars they can to keep up with massive amounts of custom orders from dealers.

Dealer here.

Ain't so.

But I agree that anyone that CAN order one SHOULD order one to keep the interest up.

It's a damn shame that it's come to this.

[MCChris]

Until Hamer can garner more interest in their brand other then the 30 guys who post here they will eventually die. I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

Yeah, the bit about the HFC comprising the entirety of Hamer buyers/players out there is rather myopic. The bit about the value of Gibson in the marketplace has less to do with stupidity and more to do with branding and marketing. I've certainly spouted off often about what I perceive to be Hamer's failures in this area, so no need to do so again. But the last time I was at BadgerDave's I perused a few issues of Guitar Aficionado Magazine and noticed some pretty prominent Hamer placements, which IMO is a very effective marketing strategy, given Hamer's current direction.

For me, a custom order is not possible because I can't afford one, and doesn't make sense because I need to bond with a guitar physically before I know it's a keeper. While the likelihood of being able to do so sight unseen with a custom Hamer is probably near 100%, it's a chance I wouldn't be willing to take, given the hit I'd have to absorb on resale if I didn't bond with it. Sure, I've purchased plenty of new and used off-the-rack guitars over the years without having played them first, but they were all under the $1K mark and/or purchased for market value or below, so I could come close to recouping my investment (if not turn a small profit) if I decided to move them along. I could care less about the resale value of the ones I have bonded with, because they're not going anywhere.

[princeofdarkness56]

I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

Yup, no doubt about it. Many would rather have a inferior guitar with a popular name on the headstock rather than a quality instrument without the name. But that applies to many other items as well.

[tbonesullivan]

I'd order one, but I'm simply full up on guitars. Two hamers, two heritages, three carvins, two carvin basses, two gibsons, and a ton of amps.

One of my friends said he'd heard of hamer but they were "too expensive"... and then he bought an LP classic for $1600. Hamer makes great guitars, but they don't have the brand recognition that larger brands have. Even their import models still sell a lot less than other brands, even though their design is just as good.

What hamer really needs is someone big and famous (moreso than Cheap Trick) to be seen with Hamer guitars. Not easy, considering the big F and G are very quick to find artists, as are a lot of other makers like dean, washburn, ibanez, esp, etc. It's a jungle out there.

[edgar_allan_poe]

Not easy, considering the big F and G are very quick to find artists,

PRS baby...PRS.

[bubs_42]

Until Hamer can garner more interest in their brand other then the 30 guys who post here they will eventually die. I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

I only have a Newport Pro right now but would like to get a 2-pu korina Junior or Special what ever they call it.

If anybody thinks that Hamer depends on "the 30 guys who post here" (or even the several thousand total members), they are grossly mistaken. Only a small fraction of the Hamer guitars made every year are ordered by board members. Talk to Bob Willcutt or Dave Rogers and ask those guys how many of their customers have ever heard of the HFC, and I'm pretty sure that it will be very few - probably a single-digit percentage.

It's a much bigger world out there!

If you think they are dead in the water, you will miss out on what they are doing as a "Custom Shop" They are building all the guitars they can to keep up with massive amounts of custom orders from dealers.

Dealer here.

Ain't so.

But I agree that anyone that CAN order one SHOULD order one to keep the interest up.

It's a damn shame that it's come to this.

Until Hamer can garner more interest in their brand other then the 30 guys who post here they will eventually die. I think it's insane that guitars of the quality of the Artist, Newport and the Monoco can only get between $950 and $1300 used...that is just insane. Meanwhile shitty Gibsons with lumpy and uneven finishes, poor fret work etc...get double this. I guess it comes down to this, people are stupid and buy based on history rather than quality.

Yeah, the bit about the HFC comprising the entirety of Hamer buyers/players out there is rather myopic. The bit about the value of Gibson in the marketplace has less to do with stupidity and more to do with branding and marketing. I've certainly spouted off often about what I perceive to be Hamer's failures in this area, so no need to do so again. But the last time I was at BadgerDave's I perused a few issues of Guitar Aficionado Magazine and noticed some pretty prominent Hamer placements, which IMO is a very effective marketing strategy, given Hamer's current direction.

For me, a custom order is not possible because I can't afford one, and doesn't make sense because I need to bond with a guitar physically before I know it's a keeper. While the likelihood of being able to do so sight unseen with a custom Hamer is probably near 100%, it's a chance I wouldn't be willing to take, given the hit I'd have to absorb on resale if I didn't bond with it. Sure, I've purchased plenty of new and used off-the-rack guitars over the years without having played them first, but they were all under the $1K mark and/or purchased for market value or below, so I could come close to recouping my investment (if not turn a small profit) if I decided to move them along. I could care less about the resale value of the ones I have bonded with, because they're not going anywhere.

IT'S TIME TO DO A HFC GUITAR!

[jisham]

Not easy, considering the big F and G are very quick to find artists,

PRS baby...PRS.

PRS indeed. There was a Washington Post article years ago about the PRS strategy to get its guitars into the hands of as many "signed" players as possible. From what I remember, at the time, PRS had a guy whose sole job was to give guitars to up and comers, and the article talked about how well it was paying off for the visibility of PRS.

There's nothing really hard about it all; a company just makes a decision to DO IT. It's been beaten to death over the years on HFC, but seems like Hamer has never wanted to take an approach like that, for whatever reason.

I also agree with Chris: to plunk down what it would cost for a custom order then have to wait months and months to get it doesn't work for me. For better or worse, if I want something I WANT IT NOW. By the time the order showed up, I would have either moved on to wanting something or else or be totally disappointed that my <ENTER HIGH DOLLAR AMOUNT> custom order didn't live up to my expectations.

Right now, if I wanted a Hamer, I'd be scooping up used ones as they are true bargains.

[chap]

Hmm... well at least they are trying. It's sad to see where Kramer is now... pretty much internet only through Gibson's own site. Though, they did have a USA made model a year or two ago that was very reasonable.

Where do you buy charvel guitars anyway?

Well at least where I live, and big box store guitar shop sells Charvel ... like the stores that sell your run-of-the-mill Fender, Gibson, Ibanez also now sells brands like Charvel, Jackson...

[DavidE]

Hamer has had little visibility for a long time. Tom Dumont's use of many Hamers didn't seem to help much and he was probably the highest profile player to play Hamers in a long time except for Joe Perry and Brad Whitford.

PRS's strategy has certainly paid off, but the guitars are great for the most part. I've noticed a lot more country players using PRS where Gibsons were big for a while (with Gibson being in Nashville).

But then there's Taylor. Bob Taylor does not give away guitars, Yet they're all over the place and highly visible.

So, I don't know that there's one strategy that works for every company and I don't have any expertise to make any suggestions in that regard.

I own lots of Hamers, but I gig my PRSs. Why? They have a fantastic trem and are all more versatile than my Hamers (coil taps etc....) that make them more useful for gigging. For me. YMMV

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

I don't believe that the "average guitar buyer" is in the over $1K market. Now you're talking professional musicians or dedicated hobbiests.

Over $2K for a custom order? Now you're talking guitar fanatics with more money than sense. By that I mean that there is no discernable difference to any potential audience listening to or looking at the guitar. We have all seen some guy with a beat up $300 guitar put on a great performance. I sit there with my expensive guitars and hack away. I would sound the same to the audience whether I was playing a $500 guitar or a new Hamer.

The reason I own a Hamer Newport is that I really love the feel and sound of the instrument. To me it is worth buying, because I have more disposable income than real musical need.

Hamer has the challenge of building that feeling of need within the ranks of guitar fanatics for a Hamer. My 13 yr old son won't buy a new Hamer if he decides to learn guitar. The college student who wants to pick up girls isn't going to buy a new Hamer. People buy an instrument for a lot of different reasons, but it comes down to their self image and their belief of the image of the guitar. Death Metal bands aren't going to play beautiful new Korina Artists.

The demographic for Hamer is the pro who understands what the instrument can do for him/her, or the fanatic with some extra dough. We're still in that downward deflationary economic cycle with the specter of continued unemployment and future high inflation. It is just a bad time to be a producer in the high end of any market. Survivors will be sitting pretty in a couple of years.

[BCR Greg]

I just got off the phone with the factory.

Custom orders are still being accepted, and a few stock instruments have just been completed that have been in the system. I doubt that any more stock guitars will be started, but customs will still happen.

[LadyScary]

[MCChris]

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.p...mp;#entry430360

[LadyScary]

The Horse is Dead!

[edgar_allan_poe]

Ok ...enough. We get the point. Lets get back on topic. Personal attacks have been removed by myself. We can disagree without name calling.

The topic was about Hamer being able to keep afloat being only a Custom Order shop.

(Poe puts some Vaseline in his leather glove to keep his pimp hand soft.)