So, time to write Hamer's obituary?

[elduave]

What I'd like to know is "Can I get a REAL custom order"??

I think this is the question that most of us here at the HFC want an answer to.

Define "real".

In this case:

Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers)

Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do.

I played the fuck out of my Not Real SuperPro the other night.

As far as Boomers (and the like), request a quote, and see if there's been a change.

What I'd like to know is "Can I get a REAL custom order"??

I think this is the question that most of us here at the HFC want an answer to.

Define "real".

I''ll define REAL custom in my eyes... (was previously told no)

Korina Standard

Faded Cherry

Brazilian board, dots w/wide 12th fret spacing

Vintage neck carve

4 digit style headstock w/old style logo placement

50's style Klusons

Request a quote. One of our forum bretheren has done just that, with one of those prickly options you have listed. We'll see what happens...

[jisham]

Speaking of advertising.

Hamer used to have a 1/4 page or 1/2 page ad in Premier Guitar. I haven't seen one in there for months. I guess their ad budget has been cut way back.

Or they realized that a picture of Jol holding a guitar doesn't actually sell Hamers.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

I played the fuck out of my Not Real SuperPro the other night.

I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just clarifying what expectations you get with the word "custom."

I'm not in the market for custom for some time, real or not real.

But someday I'll ask them for a Jeff Watson w/ Boomers.

[MCChris]

Or they realized that a picture of Jol holding a guitar doesn't actually sell Hamers.

Maybe if he's holding a guitar AND two snifters of cognac?

[eightyfour]

I don't think its unreasonable for a company to refuse to barf up old designs to satisfy everybodys whims. As much as it continues to break my heart, try as I may, I will still never get Chrysler to build me another Reliant K.

[LefThanDed]

What about Hamer Imports?

[cmatthes]

In this case:

Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers)

Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do

Request a quote. One of our forum bretheren has done just that, with one of those prickly options you have listed. We'll see what happens...

I was told (7-8 years ago) that there was no way to get boomers done - they were over, and we'd never see them again. I placed an order through Elduave in the Fall of '04, and requested boomers anyway...what could it hurt, right? It worked out, and now I've got a great custom bass with boomers that I was told a year or two before would never be possible.

I think stuff like that will be open here and there for specific requests. What I think Hamer DOES NOT WANT TO DO, is get all the goofy requests for things they don't make, like a checkerboard 5-neck, a copy of Tipton's ugly mutant guitar, or something with a meat slicer and a kitchen sink and an LED array with an iPod interface. I think people looked at some of the crazier things that Hamer did in the 80s and thought that's the kind of stuff the company did on a regular basis. I don't think they want to become "that" place, and that they wish to focus on pushing their current designs forward.

Think of it like this; Fender has a Custom Shop. Gibson has a Custom Shop. Paul Smith has his Private Stock program. These are all "Real" custom shops that build "real" custom guitars to a customer's specs. HOWEVER, none of them are going to make you a totally customer-spec guitar - they'll ALL use existing or available platforms. Want a Strat with a fish tank in it? Fender will do it if you pony up. Want a Les Paul with some NASCAR guy's face carved in it - they'll make it for you. Want a PRS Santana with Gold-rimmed fossilized Wooly Mammoth ivory "old" bird inlays? They'll do that if your wallet's fat enough. None of them will make you a 5 neck monstrosity or a model they no longer make or no longer have the capacity to do. It isn't worth it for any company to go through the R&D, mock up a prototype or two and then try to make a one-off guitar.

My challenge still stands: Of all the people complaining that Hamer won't build them a Californian, call your dealer with a minimum of a $5,000 deposit in hand (fully prepared to pay a second $5k or more upon delivery), and see what your answer will be.

Still no takers after 6 years!

[JGale]

What I'd like to know is "Can I get a REAL custom order"??

I think this is the question that most of us here at the HFC want an answer to.

Define "real".

In this case:

Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers)

Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do.

"Real" results in a unique guitar. "Not Real" results in a guitar that is only as unique as the other 100 guitars with the exact same options selected.

Is it really "custom" to get to select chrome hardware instead of black? By definition, yes. In effect, no.

Now, demanding to be able to have the knob moved 1/2" farther apart, and the input jack shifted 1" up, change the angle the neck leaves the body by 20 degrees, have 9 strings with a harp and built in wah pedal and the entire guitar made out of ebony with a solid-uranium fretboard...well, that goes beyond the limits of any custom shop, no matter how ambitious.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Just the neck carve/width of your choice would be a big step up.

[eightyfour]

"Gold rimmed fossilized wooley mammoth ivoroid inlays"

You mock me Matthes? I found that to be perfectly reasonable when I ordered my 5-neck lefty checkerboard Watson with boomers!

[atquinn]

Just the neck carve/width of your choice would be a big step up.

I thought Hamer had no problem doing custom neck carves?

-

Austin

[SteveB]

In this case:

Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers)

Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do.

If I was Hamer or any good luthier, I would never offer "carte blanche" custom orders. Customers can come up with some stupid shit, and its still the luthiers name on the headstock, and their reputation on the line.

[jisham]

Just the neck carve/width of your choice would be a big step up.

I thought Hamer had no problem doing custom neck carves?

-

Austin

That was last month.

I kid...sorta. I find it frustrating they change their mind so much about they will/won't do. I've said it several times here before but the only custom order I ever tried to make was for a white Standard. I got an unequivocal NO! Lo and behold, months later someone posts a pic of their brand spanking new white Standard. That was the end of me ever considering a custom order from Hamer. I bought a few stock models after that, and might buy something else used in the future, but that's it for me. For better or worse, that kind of stuff really pisses me off. YMMV

[diablo175]

In this case:

Real = you can get anything you want, within the limits of physics and common sense (i.e. Boomers)

Not Real = you can "customize" from a limited list of options that they are willing to do

Request a quote. One of our forum bretheren has done just that, with one of those prickly options you have listed. We'll see what happens...

I was told (7-8 years ago) that there was no way to get boomers done - they were over, and we'd never see them again. I placed an order through Elduave in the Fall of '04, and requested boomers anyway...what could it hurt, right? It worked out, and now I've got a great custom bass with boomers that I was told a year or two before would never be possible.

I think stuff like that will be open here and there for specific requests. What I think Hamer DOES NOT WANT TO DO, is get all the goofy requests for things they don't make, like a checkerboard 5-neck, a copy of Tipton's ugly mutant guitar, or something with a meat slicer and a kitchen sink and an LED array with an iPod interface. I think people looked at some of the crazier things that Hamer did in the 80s and thought that's the kind of stuff the company did on a regular basis. I don't think they want to become "that" place, and that they wish to focus on pushing their current designs forward.

Think of it like this; Fender has a Custom Shop. Gibson has a Custom Shop. Paul Smith has his Private Stock program. These are all "Real" custom shops that build "real" custom guitars to a customer's specs. HOWEVER, none of them are going to make you a totally customer-spec guitar - they'll ALL use existing or available platforms. Want a Strat with a fish tank in it? Fender will do it if you pony up. Want a Les Paul with some NASCAR guy's face carved in it - they'll make it for you. Want a PRS Santana with Gold-rimmed fossilized Wooly Mammoth ivory "old" bird inlays? They'll do that if your wallet's fat enough. None of them will make you a 5 neck monstrosity or a model they no longer make or no longer have the capacity to do. It isn't worth it for any company to go through the R&D, mock up a prototype or two and then try to make a one-off guitar.

My challenge still stands: Of all the people complaining that Hamer won't build them a Californian, call your dealer with a minimum of a $5,000 deposit in hand (fully prepared to pay a second $5k or more upon delivery), and see what your answer will be.

Still no takers after 6 years!

If Hamer wants to run their business as a custom shop then more power to 'em. The question then becomes can they thrive and grow as a boutique CO shop. Maybe they don't want to grow. But stats show that businesses that don't plan and work for growth go belly up eventually. I, for one, can't afford to, and am not inclined to support a custom shop that charges what they do for guitars. Not saying they're not worth every penny of it but I'll hold on to my 2 Cali's and Diablos and when I feel the urge to drop some bank on a bout of GAS, I'll look to some other manufacturer. Charvel is putting out some decent USA models...

[cmatthes]

Not saying they're not worth every penny of it but I'll hold on to my 2 Cali's and Diablos and when I feel the urge to drop some bank on a bout of GAS, I'll look to some other manufacturer. Charvel is putting out some decent USA models...

That's an Apples to Spaceships comparison though. I think something more in line would be Huber, PRS' Private Stock or a small boutique builder.

Charvels, even on a "Custom" basis, are still a mass-production style guitar. Not knocking them at all, because I think they are among the best at what they do, but they aren't even in the same category as the others mentioned above from a lutherie standpoint.

When I see a bunch of sheep on another board paying $4-$5k (and up and over $10k too!) for a glorified Partsocaster Strat or Tele copy, I have to think that Hamer isn't as far off the mark with their strategy as many seem to think. I may not be able to afford another Custom Order ever again, but I've had a good run and have 4 or 5 really cool and special Hamers that nobody else has.

[Guest JackButler]

Quote cmatthes: "a copy of Tipton's ugly mutant guitar"

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no?

I could honestly care less what they do at this point, but I wouldn't call this a "custom shop".. a "list options that we'll do that fit within our current vision".. yeah.. but not custom.. custom, in general perception means anything goes.. it doesn't.. the only thing I find sad is the revisionist history and the fact that they're ashamed of an era that for most define the company.. again in general perception.

These days I get the feeling that there's a chip on the company's shoulder (that can mean whomever) that they're not or didn't become Paul Reed Smith. They may have been there first.. and they may have been an influence.. but they got beat to the punch and to the finish line... and so now, we have an "its my ball" thing going on.. no problem there.. it is indeed his ball.. well, really FMIC's ball..

[harry65]

just to add my $.02 to the convo...............

hamer has become an elitist brand , they were not always that way, they are no longer interested in selling a great handmade instrument that the everyday working stiff can afford , they wanna make that same studio they've been making for 30 years with some more bling on it and sell it for $4000. that's cool, it's their company, sucks for most of us though.....................

[atquinn]

just to add my $.02 to the convo...............

hamer has become an elitist brand , they were not always that way, they are no longer interested in selling a great handmade instrument that the everyday working stiff can afford , they wanna make that same studio they've been making for 30 years with some more bling on it and sell it for $4000. that's cool, it's their company, sucks for most of us though.....................

This cost me $1000 used and was in perfect condition:

Hamer cannot, and has not for many years, been able to produce any new guitar that can compete with the many, many, used Hamers that are already out there. And for them to try to do so would be even more suicidal than people think their current strategy is. And given the rate at which they produce new models (or should that be "produced"), I don't see how you can accuse them of wanting to make the same thing they've been making for 30 years. Although it seems that alot of the people in this thread wish that's exactly what they were doing

-

Austin

[cmatthes]

Quote cmatthes: "a copy of Tipton's ugly mutant guitar"

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no?

Maybe - that's actually taken from a GT quote where he stated that he wanted a guitar so ugly, nobody else would want to play one. They really nailed that one!

just to add my $.02 to the convo...............

hamer has become an elitist brand , they were not always that way, they are no longer interested in selling a great handmade instrument that the everyday working stiff can afford , they wanna make that same studio they've been making for 30 years with some more bling on it and sell it for $4000. that's cool, it's their company, sucks for most of us though.....................

Yeah - that's certainly one way of looking at it, but have you priced production Gibsons lately? A Les Paul Custom STREETS at $4,000- $6,000. Not to mention that Gibson has 30+ Les Pauls right now that sell for between $5,500 and $25k - actual dealer prices, not list! An SG Custom sells for between $3,800 and $4,500 STREET. Guess what your options are there? Faded Cherry or Classic White - that's IT.

When I bought my first Les Paul Custom new off the rack in 1982, it was exactly 50% of what the Greenburst, dotnecked Hamer Standard I lusted after was selling for. To buy the equivalent Les Paul today would cost me the same or 50% MORE than to order a brand new Standard.

You can't just look at this in an isolated fashion - Hamers have gotten very expensive, but then again, so have utility guitars like new Les Pauls and SGs that are nowhere near as well made. Guitars are luxury items. Now, the better ones are being priced like it.

Everything is relative.

Just for kicks, think of the price of a Les Paul Standard in 1959 - $247.50 then, is the equivalent of $1,900 today. You can buy a lower end, production Les Paul for that (again, Street price) right now, but can't get a better-built nice one anywhere near that price.

The Hamer Standard I mentioned above sold for $1,250 in 1982. That's the rough equivalent of $3,000 today. You can buy a new, handmade Hamer Standard for that or less today.

[MCChris]

What I never understood was the bolt-on strategy in the '90s. I can understand moving away from Floyd-ed shredders due to market demand, but what was the point of making dead-nuts copies of Strats and Teles?

[gorch]

..., but what was the point of making dead-nuts copies of Strats and Teles?

Simply because they are popular!

[jisham]

That's true and while I and many probably understand what you're saying, the other side of the coin is that $4000-$6000 street priced Gibson will probably retain at least 85 percent of its value over time. Not so with recent Hamers from what I've seen.

[cmatthes]

That's true and while I and many probably understand what you're saying, the other side of the coin is that $4000-$6000 street priced Gibson will probably retain at least 85 percent of its value over time. Not so with recent Hamers from what I've seen.

Jaye - I totally hear what you're saying, but It's actually not that far off. Ever see a recently purchased Les Paul sell for anywhere near what they sell for new? The Gear Page is littered with people who had to sell their new $4k LPs for $2.5k on eBay because nobody else would buy a used one for nearly what they sell for new.

The R9s that sell for between $5-$8k new now seem to be very sluggish at $4-$6k used, and I think that's the model that might hold value the best.

[atquinn]

What I never understood was the bolt-on strategy in the '90s. I can understand moving away from Floyd-ed shredders due to market demand, but what was the point of making dead-nuts copies of Strats and Teles?

I'm fairly certain the strategy had something to do with trying to make money while the bottom was falling out the shredder market I mean, you're already setup to make bolt-ons, so why not. Also, they weren't dead-nuts copies, although perhaps I'm being nitpicky?

-

Austin

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

This cost me $1000 used and was in perfect condition:

Hamer cannot, and has not for many years, been able to produce any new guitar that can compete with the many, many, used Hamers that are already out there. And for them to try to do so would be even more suicidal than people think their current strategy is. And given the rate at which they produce new models (or should that be "produced"), I don't see how you can accuse them of wanting to make the same thing they've been making for 30 years. Also it seems that alot of the people in this thread wish that's exactly what they were doing

-

Austin

That's a nice viewpoint. I said on another thread that by my own estimation of what a Centaura is worth, I paid double to get the blueburst from Nick.

But it is just about mint...anywhere it isn't mint is well within normal use.

But if it takes $10k to get a Cali these days, then the $1000+ I paid for a Centaura Deluxe is *well* worth it, and still cheap.

But maybe that's the thing: with CNC technology, I just don't understand why it should cost $10k to get a handmade Cali, unless the price is at least partly punitive in nature.

They know how to make a Cali. The only unusual part of it is the slant-edge 27-fret board. Ebony doesn't cost several thousand, and boomerangs aren't all that complicated. Where does the $10k go?

Someday, to celebrate some important milestone (publishing a book or an important promotion or something), I would like to get a Jeff Watson. Not getting Boomers isn't a deal-killer...but why shouldn't I get Boomers or a USAF Symbol or the Yin/Yang symbol for inlays if I'm paying $5k? There should still be no way they could lose money on that deal, but it sounds like they might be unwilling.

And if it's going to cost $10k to get a Jeff Watson model (just a guess, since you say a Cali is that much), I would probably have to give up that dream.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I love all the used Hamers enough that at some point I want to say thank you to Jol by giving *him* some of my money for a great guitar.

Maybe I'll have a late-life musical success, brag about how much I like Hamers, and he'll make a Brainfertilizer Model (probably a fixed-bridge, sustain-block Cali with a pickup design I like and a personal inlay design)!

[MCChris]

Also, they weren't dead-nuts copies, although perhaps I'm being nitpicky?

Well right, the headstocks and bridges were different. Everything else looked exact to me. Certainly more so than a TLE or a Vintage S.