Jol re-surfaces, in Premier Guitar

[hardheartedbill]

I STILL refrain from fully saying what I think about certain situations that I saw as a mod and New Hartfords attitude and approach to it's dealer network. There is no real point in going back there, but Hamer dealt w/ people who they thought were "good guys" very differently than other people ordering guitars, to me it seemed more like a dodgeball pick than a business plan

[bubs_42]

Over 4years and just under 5000 post's and I got to admit. This thread is the biggest pile of sh*t i've came acrossed on this board. No matter what side of the fence you're on we have to remember than everyone has an opinion and nobody has to agree but its no reason to be disrespectful to each other or jump on the pile. This is the "HamerFanclub" and from what i've viewed every day on this board and from members is not a reflection of what I have read in this thread.

Although we are only 15 this year I have aquote

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." ~ Warren Buffet

[atquinn]

Well there are attitudes and there are attitudes. For instance, "Give me everything I want all the time or I'll publicly piss all over you despite anything you've ever done for me."

Nonsense... Show me *ONE* person with that attitude. Since when is *anyone* above being criticized? People on this thread has been critical of his business sense AND given him his due for the things that he *did* get right. None of it has been personal, all of it has been business. I have met Jol, he seems like a great guy. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything he does or says and when I *don't* it doesn't mean that I think less of him as a human. "Piss all over"...give me a break.

For a smart guy, you sure say some dumb sh*t. LOL!!!!!

Yes, I would say that people's attitude to Hamer on the board here is actually very good in that regard. There's the occasional person that thinks that just because they bought a couple used Californians, Hamer should resissue them and sell them for $350 each, but every complaint I've seen in this thread is valid. There's a difference between something like discontinuing crown inlays for vics across the board and just randomly redrawing the line on what you will and will not do. Or not so randomly.

-Austin

[hardheartedbill]

Over 4years and just under 5000 post's and I got to admit. This thread is the biggest pile of sh*t i've came acrossed on this board. No matter what side of the fence you're on we have to remember than everyone has an opinion and nobody has to agree but its no reason to be disrespectful to each other or jump on the pile. This is the "HamerFanclub" and from what i've viewed every day on this board and from members is not a reflection of what I have read in this thread.

Although we are only 15 this year I have aquote

"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." ~ Warren Buffet

man, this looks like something I would have posted in '01. it's unfair to the newbies ( w/ 5k posts LOL ) and I am sorry to be part of any kind of bummer, but I peaked behind the curtain, the horror the horror LOL

[edgar_allan_poe]

Yes, I would say that people's attitude to Hamer on the board here is actually very good in that regard. There's the occasional person that thinks that just because they bought a couple used Californians, Hamer should resissue them and sell them for $350 each, but every complaint I've seen in this thread is valid. There's a difference between something like discontinuing crown inlays for vics across the board and just randomly redrawing the line on what you will and will not do. Or not so randomly.

Bingo! Why is so hard for some people to understand that some of us are being critical because we love Hamer guitars and want to see them succeed? Why is it assumed that some of us hate Hamer. I see none of that here.

FWIW I have heard *nothing* but positive things about the new regime at Hamer. Dealers are all saying that they are far more willing to work with a client now. All of you who are defending Hamer's previous ways... think about that for a second. If everything was so well run, then why the change?

[cmatthes]

Some very valid points are being raised here, however personal attacks (overt or the passive-aggressive thinly-veiled type) aren't going to fly here.

Let's keep it clean, people. If you have a beef with somebody, take it offline. No need for that crap on our board.

[cynic]

Over 4years and just under 5000 post's and I got to admit. This thread is the biggest pile of sh*t i've came acrossed on this board.

Roughly six months with less than 150 posts and I'm quite enjoying it. I feel there can be discussion, even heated discussion without it being disrespectful, and I don't think it's gone there (yet).

I find it interesting, and somewhat of a testament to the brand that while there were so many disagreements and disappointments behind the scenes (and sometimes in front), that it remains a favorite among all/most here.

I don't know Jol from Adam, but sounds a bit ego-maniacal. Seems like a no brainer to me that he could have easily gone a little further to throw a little recognition towards the relatively small group of faithful customers he had by building the guitar they wanted. It's not like any of the custom orders mentioned in this thread were asking him to build something that might be seen as anything but a Hamer.

Maybe he was made to do things he didn't want to do in junior high school and he had a vendetta

Steve

[stonge]

Some very valid points are being raised here, however personal attacks (overt or the passive-aggressive thinly-veiled type) aren't going to fly here.

Let's keep it clean, people. If you have a beef with somebody, take it offline. No need for that crap on our board.

I looked outside and the leaves ain't turning yet; for some reason I thought it was October lol...

back to yer regularly scheduled programming...

[cmatthes]

I looked outside and the leaves ain't turning yet; for some reason I thought it was October lol...

back to yer regularly scheduled programming...

The annual brouhaha typically starts the first week of August. Maybe we had a leap year in there throwing things off a couple of days?

[MCChris]

BTW, do you have any inside information regarding why Jol left Hamer, or is this mere supposition?

Spare me the law school grad b.s. This isn't a court room, this is the real world, where common sense actually has credibility. Anyone with any life experience can safely assume that Jol wasn't let go because FMIC gave him the gift of an early retirement earned by artistry.

[JohnnyB]

Anyway, I agree with Jonathan's statement myself, but then I never had any problem getting what I wanted

-Austin

You obviously never tried to order a guitar in that most-exotic-of-all finishes, Refrigerator White.

[LostArt]

Hamer built some great guitars for me and rejected others.

for every ten I that I got built maybe 2 were rejected and some of them were obvious.

beatle bass, californian, t 51

some made me scratch my head especially when I saw them get built for others but in the long run I have no major problem with Hamer or Jol.

[MCChris]

in the long run I have no major problem with Hamer

For the record, neither do I. My SuperPro is a masterpiece and my Mirage is damn close to it, as are all but one of the other Hamers I've ever owned. But the negative experiences of customers and the lukewarm reception by the marketplace are palpable, as is the attitude behind it all.

[JohnnyB]

Hamer built some great guitars for me and rejected others.

for every ten I that I got built maybe 2 were rejected and some of them were obvious.

beatle bass, ...

Ya mean like this?

[Mitch]

For the record. I'm usually rejected, by the in crooowwwowwd...

Any and all EZN references are appreciated. Carry on.

[stonge]

Jaye, the 'Guru' title bothered me after a while too so I asked Jol about it. The story about how it originated made it less so. He said, "We were at the big guitar show in Austin and we saw all of these new dealers selling vintage gear and advertising themselves as "Experts". I said, if these guys are "Experts" then I'm a fucking guru."

ok - that makes sense. It was a big stretch for me to understand going from 'Doc Danger' to 'the Guru' - I always figured it was something marketing dreamed up

[srvwannab]

... it seemed more like a dodgeball pick than a business plan

Bill-

That is one funny saying. I have a feeling I will be using that in the future, without giving you any credit.

[hardheartedbill]

... it seemed more like a dodgeball pick than a business plan

Bill-

That is one funny saying. I have a feeling I will be using that in the future, without giving you any credit.

happens to me on a regular basis, my pleasure!

[JohnnyB]

I STILL refrain from fully saying what I think about certain situations that I saw as a mod and New Hartfords attitude and approach to it's dealer network. There is no real point in going back there, but Hamer dealt w/ people who they thought were "good guys" very differently than other people ordering guitars, to me it seemed more like a dodgeball pick than a business plan

Well, it all started when a severed horse's head showed up in Jol's bed a few years ago.

But nobody was able to connect it with Willcutt. Sssshhhhhh.

[hardheartedbill]

it was under a tarp ( tarp not for sale ) LOL

[JohnnyB]

BTW, do you have any inside information regarding why Jol left Hamer, or is this mere supposition?

Spare me the law school grad b.s. This isn't a court room, this is the real world, where common sense actually has credibility. Anyone with any life experience can safely assume that Jol wasn't let go because FMIC gave him the gift of an early retirement earned by artistry.

Now Chris, Jonathan's higher standard of truth may be annoying, but it's also tedious and irrelevant.

[MCChris]

I thought it was a more polite way of asking if you actually knew anything or if you were just farting in the breeze! But thanks for answering my question!

-Jonathan

Nice try, but I don't have to actually put my hand on an electric stove coil that's glowing bright orange to know it'll burn me. Anyone with real world experience and/or who is not blinded by unconditional hero worship can connect the dots here. Clearly neither applies to you.

[polara]

Thank goodness I've never had the scratch to spend on a custom Hamer (let alone a new one) and get drawn into the "Jol gave me gold-plated widgets!/Jol wouldn't give me silver-plated thinguses!" match.

[MCChris]

I'm just willing to cut him some slack for his business decisions.

You'd be less willing to do so if you were a vendor or a custom order customer who was bitten on the ass by Jol's "eccentricity."

[Guest JackButler]

Why does everyone always say "Fender" let Jol go? Same thing with the generic "Fender" moniker.. big difference between the corporate banking folk that pull the purse strings for diversifying the brands distributed under the FMIC umberella of brands.. the folks in Scottsdale (Fender Corp.) and Fender (a guitar manufacturer in Corona, CA).. may be the same body, but three VERY different heads.. that don't always communicate with each other.. not to mention, there is still a structure in place that is KMC (Kaman Music).. its my understanding that Jol being let go was handed down from KMC.. now it may have trickled down in some form from someone at "Fender"..but I believe the actual dropping of the ax was from Kaman.