Well, it was fun....... but it's over.

[Never2Late]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days. Guess his draw for PRS is the Boomer Generation Bloozedocs and Bloozelawyers (etc.) that still worship at the altar of Woodstock, Bloomfield and Bluesbreakers...

PRS doesn't really have many "A-List" players, but they just have SO DAMNED MANY players with their stuff in their hands.

Orianthi, Akerfeld, Navarro, that dude from 311...PRS is not exactly killing it on the endorser side either - they make up for lack of quality (of endorser) with quantity. They just get their guitars on stages and take out multiple slick full color ads in all the rags on a monthly basis.

Their genius is in marketing their brand. Like Gene Simmons hunting down a fan's last nickel.

Santana a hack? Somebody's having too much eggnog....

[MCChris]

Orianthi, Akerfeld, Navarro, that dude from 311...PRS is not exactly killing it on the endorser side either - they make up for lack of quality (of endorser) with quantity. They just get their guitars on stages and take out multiple slick full color ads in all the rags on a monthly basis.

There's also Tremonti, Kroeger, the guy from Opeth...lots of quality endorsers, it just doesn't seem like it because guitar players aren't as omnipresent as they used to be.

But yes, they've managed to convince the guitar-buying public that their prices are worth it.

[kizanski]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days.

Santana a hack? Somebody's having too much eggnog....

hack·neyed

/ˈhaknēd/

Adjective

(of a phrase or idea) Lacking significance through having been overused.

That's about as close to a definition of Carlos Santana as you will ever find.

The man is a repetitive as a broken record.

[Steve Haynie]

Uh, it's the headstock.

Jorge must have hacked Feyman's account.

[MCChris]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days.

Santana a hack? Somebody's having too much eggnog....

hack·neyed

/ˈhaknēd/

Adjective

(of a phrase or idea) Lacking significance through having been overused.

That's about as close to a definition of Carlos Santana as you will ever find.

The man is a repetitive as a broken record.

Tell the masses who've sopped up everything he's released since "Smooth" that Carlos is overused. Those of us who clamor for a return to acid-drenched renditions of "Soul Sacrifice" and whatnot are the ones who lack significance in today's marketplace.

Casual fans...that's where the big cash can be found.

[kizanski]

Tell the masses who've sopped up everything he's released since "Smooth" that Carlos is overused. Those of us who clamor for a return to acid-drenched renditions of "Soul Sacrifice" and whatnot are the ones who lack significance in today's marketplace.

Casual fans...that's where the big cash can be found.

All true, Muse, but doesn't make anything that I said less so.

And let's not forget one tried and true fact: The Masses are Asses.

[HamerHokie]

_{Not to pick nits but one could have ordered a Studio with a trem and I'm pretty sure the Santana model originally was Gibson scale length. The current version is listed as a 24.5 scale length. I used that example as a qualitative comparison. I could have use a custom22 just the same. I agree the endorsement is a big factor, but I consider that as part of the reason Hamer was unable to realize it's 'vision'}

_ArnieZ

How much would a Studio cost with a trem comparable to a Santana? Hamer did Bigsby well enough, but the modification to accomodate a PRS-class trem would have been significant. At that point, the Studio is prolly more than the Santana.

Plus, the stock Santana was available **now**, while the Studio would have been custom order.

[MCChris]

And let's not forget one tried and true fact: The Masses are Asses.

They also keep brands like Santana in business. Hamer, not so much.

[HamerHokie]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days. Guess his draw for PRS is the Boomer Generation Bloozedocs and Bloozelawyers (etc.) that still worship at the altar of Woodstock, Bloomfield and Bluesbreakers...

PRS doesn't really have many "A-List" players, but they just have SO DAMNED MANY players with their stuff in their hands.

Orianthi, Akerfeld, Navarro, that dude from 311...PRS is not exactly killing it on the endorser side either - they make up for lack of quality (of endorser) with quantity. They just get their guitars on stages and take out multiple slick full color ads in all the rags on a monthly basis.

Their genius is in marketing their brand. Like Gene Simmons hunting down a fan's last nickel.

Yeah, that was my point using Santana as an example. Getting the guitar into artists' hands, getting them seen together onstage, in ads, in interviews, etc. Brand credibility.

[kizanski]

And let's not forget one tried and true fact: The Masses are Asses.

They also keep brands like Santana in business. Hamer, not so much.

Exactly my point.

[Disturber]

Back to the original point - Did Fender ever announce anything, or will this just quietly fade into the dark night?

Ahh, never mind. No one listens to me anyway.....

That Santana fellow sucks major @@@@@. His tone is shit, his clothes are dated and he needs a hair cut.

[coolfeel]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days.

Couldn't agree more...

[JohnnyB]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days. Guess his draw for PRS is the Boomer Generation Bloozedocs and Bloozelawyers (etc.) that still worship at the altar of Woodstock, Bloomfield and Bluesbreakers...

PRS doesn't really have many "A-List" players, but they just have SO DAMNED MANY players with their stuff in their hands.

Orianthi, Akerfeld, Navarro, that dude from 311...PRS is not exactly killing it on the endorser side either - they make up for lack of quality (of endorser) with quantity. They just get their guitars on stages and take out multiple slick full color ads in all the rags on a monthly basis.

Their genius is in marketing their brand. Like Gene Simmons hunting down a fan's last nickel.

Yeah, that was my point using Santana as an example. Getting the guitar into artists' hands, getting them seen together onstage, in ads, in interviews, etc. Brand credibility.

It doesn't really matter how old, tired, overused, compressed, collaborated, or irrelevant Santana is now. His endorsements almost single-handedly launched both PRS and Mesa/Boogie in the '80s when they needed it. He was a rock guitar god, and one of the few to break ranks with Gibson, Fender, and Marshall. Well before Santana became a historical relic, PRS and Mesa were solidly established and able to attract plenty of endorsers.

Did Hamer ever have an endorser of the stature of Santana at his peak?

[cmatthes]

What did Santana do in the '80s apart from that album in '81-'82 with "Winning" on it? He's ridden that Woodstock and early '70s thing for 40 years.

If it hadn't been for Rob Thomas pulling him out of mothballs (or maybe that Macy's ad with Donald Trump), who over the age of 45 would even be able to name anything he's ever done?

[bcsride]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days. Guess his draw for PRS is the Boomer Generation Bloozedocs and Bloozelawyers (etc.) that still worship at the altar of Woodstock, Bloomfield and Bluesbreakers...

PRS doesn't really have many "A-List" players, but they just have SO DAMNED MANY players with their stuff in their hands.

Orianthi, Akerfeld, Navarro, that dude from 311...PRS is not exactly killing it on the endorser side either - they make up for lack of quality (of endorser) with quantity. They just get their guitars on stages and take out multiple slick full color ads in all the rags on a monthly basis.

Their genius is in marketing their brand. Like Gene Simmons hunting down a fan's last nickel.

I consider David Grissom an A-list endorser. Also, he is a players player and the type of endorser that might motivate a buyer to buy a more expensive guitar.

Related in the endorser scenario is the more complicated "artist relations". Grissom has always been a PRS guy. Eric Johnson has always been a Strat guy (as an endorser). As much as I like my Steve Stevens guitar, as a company I would not develop an endorser relationship with him - he jumps from one endorsement to another rapidly. Though we all know that the endorsers do it for the money, we also want to think they actually like the guitar they are playing. Long term endorsements are needed to sell expensive guitars.

Though, I guess dudes from 311 help sell guitars as well though I don't know who he is or what he sounds like.

[cmatthes]

While I agree that David Grissom is a "World Class Player", he isn't a name that even 99% of guitarists out there know.

[velorush]

Back to the original point - Did Fender ever announce anything, or will this just quietly fade into the dark night?

It has not been revealed, not here at least, that they have released a statment regarding one way or the other.

That is why I, as I wrote in an earlier post in this thread, think that we should send them a collective letter signed by the HFC members asking they up front what is going on.

If it is signed by all the members here they have to answer us. Hard to ignore a question sent by a couple of hundred members, right?

English is not my native language. (Although I worked for a major American company for over 13 years and corresponded weekly with the LA and NY office).

But I'd prefer if someone who is good at writing up something formal would write it, other than me.

Who would be up for it?

The day Greg posted the news (and a few days after IIRC), I went looking on the Fender web site and in the business press (Hoovers, etc.) and found nothing. Since Fender never became publicly traded, they are under no real obligation to announce anything (no more so than Greenfield Hardware was required to let us know they'd stopped carrying hand made brooms).

[MCChris]

What did Santana do in the '80s apart from that album in '81-'82 with "Winning" on it? He's ridden that Woodstock and early '70s thing for 40 years.

If it hadn't been for Rob Thomas pulling him out of mothballs (or maybe that Macy's ad with Donald Trump), who over the age of 45 would even be able to name anything he's ever done?

Much of the same could be said about one Rick Nielsen.

[cmatthes]

No argument there, but then again, he was never much of a "Guitar Hero" anyway!

[MCChris]

No argument there, but then again, he was never much of a "Guitar Hero" anyway!

Which makes it a bit of a perilous decision for a guitar company to hitch its wagon to him for four decades.

[velorush]

What did Santana do in the '80s apart from that album in '81-'82 with "Winning" on it? He's ridden that Woodstock and early '70s thing for 40 years.

If it hadn't been for Rob Thomas pulling him out of mothballs (or maybe that Macy's ad with Donald Trump), who over the age of 45 would even be able to name anything he's ever done?

Much of the same could be said about one Rick Nielsen.

No argument there, but then again, he was never much of a "Guitar Hero" anyway!

Difference (to me, anyway) is that I still enjoy listening to and watching Rick Nielsen any time I get a chance (given my geography, that means on Palladia). I tried (tried) to watch a thirty minute concert of Santana last year and nearly went to sleep.

I was and am a fan of Santana back in the day (but my copy of Abraxas has to stay out of site since my son came into the world ), but I find him uninspired of late (not to mention completely incomprehensible in guitar magazine interviews).

[gorch]

Santana is a bigger washed up hack than most out there these days.

Santana a hack? Somebody's having too much eggnog....

hack·neyed

/ˈhaknēd/

Adjective

(of a phrase or idea) Lacking significance through having been overused.

That's about as close to a definition of Carlos Santana as you will ever find.

The man is a repetitive as a broken record.

373 posts counting! I thought I had missed some posts in between. Went back one page and learned something new.

Lacking significance that was for Hamer...RIP.

What would be the difference if Uncle Carlos would have endorsed Hamer?

[Bennyboy-UK]

What did Santana do in the '80s apart from that album in '81-'82 with "Winning" on it? He's ridden that Woodstock and early '70s thing for 40 years

Not true.

He was perfecting that grating out of tune sound. And getting hansomely remunerated for it...

[Devnor]

How about Al DiMeola or Neal Schon? Alex Lifeson.

Forget that stuff. A custom 24 just looks cooler than a Monaco or Studio Custom. Who wants to blow $3200+ to spec out a SC when there's numerous ones for sale constantly? What Hamer does best is Explorers and Vees. There is not tremendous demand for those guitars anyway. What I find most puzzling about the Hamer brand is they are held in such high regard yet owners seem to flip their Hamers constantly (many thanks btw). Player X gets studio custom, its the greatest instrument ever only to be flipped 6 months later. Even zandards have passed thru multiple hands (bubs you still owe me). I don't get it.

I'm glad the craftsman still have a gig. I don't see this as the end of Hamer. The break will do us all good. They'll be back doing reissues.

[JohnnyB]

What did Santana do in the '80s apart from that album in '81-'82 with "Winning" on it? He's ridden that Woodstock and early '70s thing for 40 years.

If it hadn't been for Rob Thomas pulling him out of mothballs (or maybe that Macy's ad with Donald Trump), who over the age of 45 would even be able to name anything he's ever done?

I agree about all the comments about Santana's repetitiveness and lackluster output for the last couple of decades. But when it comes to explaining endorsements and name brand recognition, what we think of Santana doesn't matter. What matters is results. Irrelevant after 45? His Supernatural album (1999, age 52) alone sold 15 million copies. That's 3/4 of Cheap Trick's entire sales output of 37 years. Santana has sold 100 million records. From a visibility and name recognition standpoint, they're not even in the same league, personal evaluations and preferences notwithstanding.

When it comes to notoriety among lead guitarists, Santana is an A-lister alongside Page, Clapton, Slash and a very few others. Who among them endorses any guitar brands other than Gibson, Fender, and Martin? Only Santana broke rank, and the continuing independent existence of PRS and Mesa are the result.

Aficionados may prefer Nielsen as a better guitarist with more imagination, but so is Lyle Workman and other largely unknown Hamer endorsers whose lack of iconic status will not boost sales figures the way Santana did for PRS and Mesa.