cmatthes Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 No. It's a Shishkov (Creative Lutherie) instrument, not a Hamer.Keep in mind that Mike was a driving force behind the Improv...
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame Posted December 13, 2012 Author Posted December 13, 2012 So if being made by a Hamer luthier doesn't make a guitar a Hamer, then why would putting the Hamer name on the headstock and having it *not* made by a previous Hamer luthier be the same?I guarantee, if Hamer starts up again after a hiatus, pretty much everyone will be discussing whether the new Hamers are as good as the old, and what the differences are.There's something special about Hamers. There's something special about the 4-digit models, too, that make people willing to spend lots more than the later, 5+ digit serials.If Hamer ever comes back, I predict it won't be seen the same as the previous iteration by *anyone* here. Even if the same luthiers are employed. The new chief of operations will either try to make everything the same (and fail), or try to do everything differently.Second Generations can never truly be the same as the First Generations. You have to stop trying to recapture the past and move on with trying to be something new.But that thought process/philosophy comes from reading lots of time travel science fiction books when I was younger, so YMMV.
Rodan Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 The Hamer guys build stuff for fun too - on their own time.Ever seen a Shishkov original?I worked with his brother briefly, at Washburn. Yuriy built his own guitars back then and they were amazing! THERE's a strong argument for very particular dedication...it seems to run in the Shishkov family, at least.
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame Posted December 13, 2012 Author Posted December 13, 2012 What makes it a Hamer is the process by which they are built and the attention to detail. If you don't build it with the stressed neck, allow the neck to season for a long time and THEN true up the fingerboard- it won't be any more a Hamer than an import built by Cort, Samick, etc.That is just one detail that would have to be recreated- there are MANY more.The tooling and process evolved over many years, with constant tweaking. Buy 'em now boys- there won't be any more built like them. You may see something someday that resembles one. If Dave or Mike isn't involved- all of the tribal knowledge from the last 20 to 25 years is gone.That's what I'm talking about.If someone buys the Hamer name and starts up again, what minor details are going to be forgotten, or cut to save money? No matter who buys it, there are going to be some differences of philosophy than the tradition that was built up.If a guitar built by a Hamer guy still isn't a Hamer, what is it lacking from being a Hamer?We don't suddenly have dozens of people clamoring to have a Shishkov built, right? Because even though made by a Hamer guy, it isn't a Hamer. It doesn't have the Hamer name on the neck, it doesn't have some of the Hamer appearance touches, and it was done separately from the Hamer tradition.And that's the thing about tradition. Once it is broken, it's over.Hamer starting up would be a new tradition, attempting to approximate the old tradition. It might be close, but the very fact of trying to resurrect it from the ashes would result in a changed entity.The Schrodinger's Cat of guitar building, if you will.Not that a resurrected Hamer would automatically have crappy guitars...if you get a few of the old builders, it could be just as good...but I can guarantee you that some decisions would be made differently than before, resulting in a different tradition, or a different culture and work atmosphere.But again, I know I'm overthinking this, and it is just my opinion, and the whole point is moot, anyway.
Crimsontider Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 I am seeing good prices A little banged up Diablo with EMG's sold in the $300's today? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hamer-Diablo-Guitar-msde-in-USA-W-Case-/230866072028?nma=true&si=uOSKjAYt2pRzUvYDtRMsInG%2FAuw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 1990 Hamer USA 'Centaura' for $530 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Hamer-USA-Centaura-Granite-Finish-Electric-Guitar-with-Deluxe-Gigbag-/121036607044?pt=Guitar&hash=item1c2e580e44
Ranger Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Auggie Bush's brewery is no longer a St. Louis biz, it was sold to an international booze group a few years ago, but I sure still drink the hell out of Budweiser. I have a Korean Hamer, and if I read the stats right a while ago, most folks who frequent this site do not own American-made Hamers. Let's see what happens, I will read what you experts (no disrespect intended, most of you folks are amazing) figure out as time goes by.Evolution vs entropy or are they really the same thing? (Great trip question, btw.)
cmatthes Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Ranger - whatever 'stats" you read were wrong. I have never seen such a thing here, and have been on this site since 1997. The overwhelming majority of the people on this board are Hamer USA owners and/or fans.
elduave Posted December 14, 2012 Posted December 14, 2012 Ranger - whatever 'stats" you read were wrong. I have never seen such a thing here, and have been on this site since 1997. The overwhelming majority of the people on this board are Hamer USA owners and/or fans. He's talking about a poll here. I remember it, but not the results per se.
HamerHokie Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Ranger - whatever 'stats" you read were wrong. I have never seen such a thing here, and have been on this site since 1997. The overwhelming majority of the people on this board are Hamer USA owners and/or fans. He's talking about a poll here. I remember it, but not the results per se. That's correct - Nathan did a poll a few years back. Ranger is totally wrong on the results, though. http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/topic/40460-hamer-brand-loyalty/?hl=%2Bbrand+%2Bloyalty According to this, only 17% of the poll respondents said they don't own a Hamer USA. What Ranger might be confusing is the percentage of people who own ONLY Hamers.
dhuber Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 It seems to me the Hamer of the 80's, 90's, and 00's are three different companies different guitars. The 80's hair bands with the Floyd Rose Super Strat's and the Sunburst and Standard. The 90's Daytona, T-51, Studio and Artist. the 00's Super Pro, Talladega, Newport, and Improv all with fancier trim. The later models seem more upper end something you would see in a high class jazz club. I'm no expert on dates and models but that's kind of what I see.I see new Hamer's on Ebay, I think it's called Willcut Music. I'm assuming it's all new old stock. When were these models last made? Does anyone know what the status of Hamer is? The last I heard is they were making Guild Guitars but I thought that was 2 years ago. I'm too cheap to buy a new Hamer because they depreciate too much. However if they fired up the factory I'd have no problem buying a second hand 2013 model. If you have skilled wood workers they can build it.
django49 Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 There are still a pretty fair number of NOS Hamers out there. Willcutt seems to be selling them off SLOWLY. I think most of what they have has been dated between 2005 and 2008, but I know that at least some they had in inventory dated to years before that.
crunchee Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 I see new Hamer's on Ebay, I think it's called Willcot Music. I'm assuming it's all new old stock. When were these models last made? Does anyone know what the status of Hamer is? The last I heard is they were making Guild Guitars but I thought that was 2 years ago. I'm too cheap to buy a new Hamer because they depreciate too much. However if they fired up the factory I'd have no problem buying a second hand 2013 model. If you have skilled wood workers they can build it.I think that the last "off the rack" (regular production) USA Hamers came out of the shop in very early 2010, but I could be wrong...I'm sure some more knowlegeable HFC members can elaborate. Willcutt has had that particular stash that they've trying to sell off for quite a few years now.This thread can tell you the status of Hamer:http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/topic/57503-well-it-was-fun-but-its-over/Moderators: can we pin BCR Greg's topic, or one that's similar that fits the bill? I get the feeling that more people that haven't heard about Hamer going away for good are gonna ask us the same question over and over and over again.In the meantime, if you REALLY want a 2013 Hamer, go talk to Fender.Edited to add: If you want to know WHY Hamer is gone, you've actually given part of the reason: " I'm too cheap to buy a new Hamer because they depreciate too much. However if they fired up the factory I'd have no problem buying a second hand 2013 model."
cmatthes Posted March 2, 2013 Posted March 2, 2013 In the meantime, if you REALLY want a 2013 Hamer, go talk to Fender.Or just keep your eyes and ears open and make a big wish every now and then.
Victor (Fret Friend) Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Meh, who cares? Someone sell me a Cali w/boomers PS: I agree, Hamer is gone (but never forgotten)
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