Played some acoustics last night....

[Guest galejt]

1989 Lemon Grove 555. One of the last from that facility. Strong evidence someone left it in an extreme low humidity environment for a long time. Warped neck replaced by Taylor in 2001 under warranty. Perfect intonation (I know, I know...). Action lower than any electric I own. A cannon. I keep it in Open G. Call me Leo.

I've play every 12 string I come across trying to convince myself I spent too much on this one. Best I can advise you is buy a pre-NT neck model 355 and beat the shit out of it....tune it open, gin up a wav file of tones that the guitar is tuned to...suspend it between two speakers and play the wav file forever. The resonance will loosen up the body. When they get old and run down they sing like the angels.

[bamboohead]

Took a huge gamble on a Washburn from the clearance online at MF. Koa sides and back, cedar top. Gold hardware. One small scratch UNDER the finish on the front. Put Elixar strings on and felt like I hit the lottery. Plays well with no buzzy frets. Action is suprisingly low and tone, presence and projection are all better than anything I played at the superstore. Retail was 799.99. Got it for 179.99 shipped free.

[bamboohead]

I did play a Breedlove at another store. Very nice. Try one.

[BLuesBuster]

Finding a good acoustic guitar is a hard job, somehow electrics seem much easier to discriminate.

[SteveB]

The wood is magnitudes more important in an acoustic over an electric. Even two of the same make and model might sound quite different, so you have to be willing to just try a ton of them before you buy an acoustic. I would never buy an acoustic without playing it first. As mentioned, go to a specialty acoustic store.

a few years back I wanted to replace my old student yamaha that I'd had since I was about 14 and bought for like 80 bucks. I set a price limit of 500 and went out shopping. I swear I tried nearly everything in that price category and couldn't believe I couldn't find a guitar that sounded as good as my old beat up plywood topped small bodied Yamaha. I think that sucker aged well, but it played like crap, so I kept looking around. In the 500'ish range I only liked the Seagulls, but I was hoping to get something with piezo electronics. The vast majority of import acoutics sounded like utter crap to me. I decided to double my price and started looking around again before I ran into a Mars music that was closing down and found a Taylor 414CE priced way down. For me, the guitar works great and sounds great, because I usually finger pick on acoustic. It wouldn't work for hamering out chords though, you kinda need a dreadnaught sized body for stuff like that.

Anyway, finding a good acoustic that speaks to you can be tough.

[discountsounds]

+1 for old Yamahas. My ex-wife has one that really stands up. Not as nice as my J-50, but sounds great compared to a lot of what's out there these days.

+1 for Simon and Patrick, too. Great price and nice sounding guitars. I bought one to use when I was gigging at Potbelly's to make ends meet last summer and I didn't want to be constantly bringing out my J-50.

[Nuclear Wessel]

I also believe that manufacturers send their "dogs" to the superstores.

Heard that too. And I've seen it. I was checking out Gibby Les Paul Jr's at Mars a few years ago. They had specimens that had the neck put on crooked!

Looked at a Jr at the local retail location of Cascio/Interstate, and I couldn't believe the difference! It felt and looked like a guitar that was made right, with attention to detail, not slapped together any old way like the ones at Mars.

[LarryC]

I played a bunch of acoustics last night and was shocked at some of the shoddy workmanship displayed by some of these mid level to high level companies...

4.  Taylor 12 - This was the most shocking of all.  The guitar was absolutely beautiful.  Quilted maple back and sides, beautiful spruce top, and fancy inlays.  It sounded like the Takamine...dead, lifeless.  When I looked it over, I was shocked...it had the headstock attached like some of the chinese guitars.  The headstock was spliced onto the neck.  WTF is this?  This guitar was 3K!!!????

I think one thing that makes a huge difference is the surroundings (many times it is very difficult to enjoy playing ANY guitar in a GC because you usually have some kid(s) amped up trying to play the opening lick to "Sweet Child Of Mine" or some other lick that they just can't seem to get right and so they torture everyone by doing it over and over and over...) ...most Guitar Centers I have visited have the Acoustic guitars in an acoustically "dead" room with a big glass door. It's like a padded cell with guitars hanging on all the walls...this may have contributed to what you heard as you tried these guitars out.

Oh...I fully concur with your assessment of the Fender 12...complete toy...even in an acoustically rich environment.

I KNOW the Takamine and the Taylors sound great so I would have to think the room you were in had a major role in what you heard.

As to the Taylor's headstock...I know that must look really bogus and I would have the same questions about it myself. The Taylor 12 is about the most perfect-playing 12 I have ever played...easy action all the way up the neck, and it holds pitch perfectly as you go up the scales. Some food for thought...although cosmetically it looks really bad, but several years ago I helped a friend add a room to his house and the 2X4's he had were like these composite boards...they were like 10 or 12 inch pieces of 2X4's spliced together using a zig-zag type joint. To look at them they look like hell and you have to wonder about how strong they are. The answer was that they are STRONGER than a regular 1-piece 2X4 board...and this type of board was more expensive too.

Sooo...I would have to guess that Taylor incorporated this "stronger" theory into their headstock on the guitar you looked at...it must look like hell too. But when you think about it, there is a hell of a lot of stress on the headstock of a 12 string. I will have to visit Guitar Center myself soon and make it a point to have a look at a Taylor 12.

Sorry I am like way overdue on this thread...I just recently got back on the internet after making a move to a new home....

Cheers

LC

[Guest galejt]

Poe.

There is good science behind the mechanics of that neck joint on the new Taylors. When in private practice, I designed laminated beams for long spans and the manufacturer used that join to make it work. It is strong in shear, flexure and axial loading. The only argrument against it I can imagine is any (if) effect the change in modulous (due to the glue) in the material properties across the joint might have on the vibrational characteristics. If that was a concern, it was removed when I played Greg's much repaired Gibby Jr that flat out gives me wood every time I pick it up.

[zzdat]

Give the Carvin Cobalts a try.

Really nice playing and sounding boxes for the money.

If you don't like it send it back.

I've played two of them, very consistant, I imagine a 12 string

Cobalt would be a breeze to play given the neck and setup

that the Carvins have.

They have a 100.00 off sale going at the moment also.

Cool Beans

Gene