becoming familiar with Hamer

[gmaslin]

Hello everyone. I recently played an SFX and liked it very much but was told they were not the best or most versatile Hamer so naturally, I became curious and ended up here. So. let's start with a feature set:

1. tapered/slim neck heel for easing high fret play and headstocks that don't angle strings to the nut.

2. great sound versatility that is coherent and familiar (ie: I hate most fat strats and prefer serial wired singles)

3. I prefer single coils but have played some very convincing split humbuckers so will not rule them out with a split circuit

4. I would like a generally high standard of build quality with action as low as I want it and comfortable, well seated edges

Now that I've described what I want, what should I be looking at?

[bcsride]

More to the original questions. The Mirage I pictured above would likely suit your needs/expectations the best. It has a 25.5" scale, rail-style humbuckers and the extra switch is a "blower" switch that sends the output of the bridge pickup straight to the output jack, bypassing all else. I'm sure that the switching could be doctored to your needs pretty easily. The sculpted heel is NIIIZE.

Your second best choice would be a Daytona.

I know that some of the longtime members have scored $350 USA Hamers before, sometimes several/many. I've only managed the feat once, about 10 years ago. It was a beat-to-death P-90 Special that rocks hard as anything. But the $350 USA Hamer has pretty much turned into a running joke.

As I went through this thread, it popped in my head that gmaslin might consider an 83 prototype.

[aknapp]

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

LOL, love this name and the paranyms that immediately come to mind (ie: sh*t for brains, etc.). Thanks for your very insightful posts. I will have a Slammer by Hamer sp1 in few days to try out so I can comment first hand on playing the lowest grade of the Hamer line. I've had similar experience with Duncan pickups. What is it about them that makes them lose their luster at high volume? Are they designed for low output or is there some electrical characteristic (ie: impedence or stray current) that makes them get ugly at high volumes. I wonder if it's an amp design interactive thing (ie: current vs. voltage drive). Does the whole Duncan line do the same thing at high volume or is it just the consumer grade?

I guess you are suggesting that the Yamaha has the best component parts for the money, is this so? I've seen some of the Yamaha's you mentioned and they remind me of the Ibanez line which is fine but there was something about the Hamer I played in the neck position that was just so big, round and articulate in both single coil and HB mode that I never heard before. The bridge position was interesting too in that it was slightly quacky as a humbucker. I can get a Slammer Strat for $100 but I'd have to mod the heel like I do with all my Strats and ruin the finish. I've been told that these are also great players. How would they compare to the current Squier Classic Vibe Strats? If you could answer in terms of quack, clarity and tone coherency I will be more likely to imagine the sound description.

It's easy to get confused about the import Hamer line as there have been several, and some are much better than others.

In general, for import Hamers, the headstock tells it all:

1. "Hamer Slammer Series" were made in Korea (MIK) and generally regarded as the best of the imports.

2. "Hamer" were also MIK and well-regarded

3. "Hamer XT Series" are either made in China (MIC) or Indonesia (MII).

4. "Slammer by Hamer" were made somewhere (MIC?).

These are listed in the generally accepted order of fit and finish, playability, and overall quality.

#1 and #2 are excellent value for the money. Many people (including me) start with one of these, and move on to USA made Hamers.

#3's are a bit hit-and-miss, there are some dogs and there are some good ones.

#4's are bottom-of-the-barrel, avoid-at-all-cost imports.

If $300 is your budget, stick with #1 or #2.

As said before, while guitars in #1 and #2 are very good, and generally better than almost all import Epiphone's, Squire's, etc., there is a noticeable difference these and a US-made Hamer.

No comparison between USA Fender or USA Gibson and USA Hamer. The USA F or G are factory made, and even the custom shops from F or G can have some dogs. USA Hamers are true master-luthier custom-shop grade guitars.

It is possible to find

1. US Hamer Eclipse 6-string for $500-$600 (mini-humbuckers)

2. US Hamer Special from the '90's forward for $600-$800 (P90's or std humbuckers)

3. US Hamer Studio or Artist for $750-$1000 depending on top and condition.

4. US Daytona (Strat) for $700-$1000

5. US T51 (Tele) for $600-$1000

These are EXCEPTIONAL values for a used guitar - well worth a lit extra saving to get one, and especially if you by from an HFC'r. Hang out, learn from the experts here (there are many) - They know their sh*t!

[gmaslin]

aknapp

Very informative and I will use your post as my reference but one question arises from it; if both the US and MIK Hamer have an identical printed headstock, how do you tell them apart?

bcsride

I just finished reading a history of Hamer webpage and saw some pictures so I can begin to start eliminating some models. If all the standards have that wonky headstock where the strings are angled into the nut, we can forget those and any others that share this attribute. We can also forget the TLE models because I can foresee those giving me what I call, 'Teleribs', which is a growing discomfort from playing such an un-ergonomic shape for long periods of time. I didn't see a photo of the '83 prototype but read there were two versions so any photos might help. Another potentially distressing notion of owning a Hamer is the probability that it will have Duncan pickups. Please see my comments and questions above about these pickups and help me understand why all the ones I've heard get flabby and incoherent at volume. How were the Samshin pickups different from the Duncans and how would they compare soundwise to a current pup like a DiMarzio chopper?

It seems like getting a beat up Hamer strat copy for no money as Drastion initially suggested and doing the mods myself seems to be the best route to a Hamer for me so far but I'll keep reading and listening.

[hamerhead]

........if both the US and MIK Hamer have an identical printed headstock, how do you tell them apart?

The USA models will always have 'USA' in small letters after the Hamer logo, and an inked or stamped serial number on the back of the headstock (not a sticker, as on the imports).

[gmaslin]

hamerhead

Noted. Now for the hard question, what components are different on the USA and MIK guitars?

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

LOL, love this name and the paranyms that immediately come to mind (ie: sh*t for brains, etc.). Thanks for your very insightful posts. I will have a Slammer by Hamer sp1 in few days to try out so I can comment first hand on playing the lowest grade of the Hamer line. I've had similar experience with Duncan pickups. What is it about them that makes them lose their luster at high volume? Are they designed for low output or is there some electrical characteristic (ie: impedence or stray current) that makes them get ugly at high volumes. I wonder if it's an amp design interactive thing (ie: current vs. voltage drive). Does the whole Duncan line do the same thing at high volume or is it just the consumer grade?

I guess you are suggesting that the Yamaha has the best component parts for the money, is this so? I've seen some of the Yamaha's you mentioned and they remind me of the Ibanez line which is fine but there was something about the Hamer I played in the neck position that was just so big, round and articulate in both single coil and HB mode that I never heard before. The bridge position was interesting too in that it was slightly quacky as a humbucker. I can get a Slammer Strat for $100 but I'd have to mod the heel like I do with all my Strats and ruin the finish. I've been told that these are also great players. How would they compare to the current Squier Classic Vibe Strats? If you could answer in terms of quack, clarity and tone coherency I will be more likely to imagine the sound description.

The computer ate my first 2 replies. I'm frustrated enough to not post again, but you deserve an answer.

I think the problem with loud volumes is only in the Duncan Design pickups Those are Korean made pickups done to the same specifications as the Duncan JB and 59. But with inferior materials and probably less attention to detail. Some of them can sound pretty good, but a pickup swapout is usually recommended to turn a very good import Hamer into a gigg-able guitar, or a keeper in the regular rotation.

I recommended Yamaha for two reasons:

1) They are phenomenal bargains. For less than the price of a Korean-made Hamer, you can get a Japan or Taiwan made Yamaha Pacifica, RGX, or SE. The Pacificas are mostly versions of strats, with pickguards and mostly floyd rose copy trems. The early RGXs and SEs have one of the best trems ever, the RM Pro II, but parts are hard to find, so get one that's in complete condition. The late RGXs have floyd rose copy trems. The 7xx and higher are equal to many USA Hamers in feel, solidness, quality, fit and finish...but most of them are more workmanlike, solid colors and rarely have figured tops. So if you are looking to stay under $300, you can get a neck-through top-quality professional guitar like an SE 1220 (got mine for $225 shipped from Music Go Round), or a medium professional quality PAC 721 or 921. I got my RGX 1220 neck-thru for just under $500, and it is the equal of my best Hamer USA shredder. It would go for $1200 or more if it had Hamer on the headstock.

Hamers overall are better. I have USA Hamers that have unique qualities that no Yamaha has ever had, so I wouldn't want to say get a Yamaha instead of a USA Hamer. But if Hamer USA is AAA level, and import Hamers are B level, a $300 Yamaha is A to AA. So you can get a better quality guitar than the import Hamers for the same price, or you can get a guitar that can, in some aspects, equal a USA Hamer for much cheaper.

When you have the money, I'd recommend owning a few of both, but that's just me.

2) You seem to have a very particular requirement for cut-down neck heels. To the best of my knowledge, Hamer doesn't really do much of this. The Mirage, as shown, has a cut-down neck heel, and maybe some of the set-neck shredders like a Californian or Chaparral.

But Yamaha has several inexpensive neck-thru guitars that have a reduced neck heel.

Like my RGX 1212:

The Pacificas are all bolt on, but the 6xx and above have the Total Access Neck Joint that really provides great access to the higher frets:

Here's my PAC 921:

[cmatthes]

hamerhead

Noted. Now for the hard question, what components are different on the USA and MIK guitars?

ALL of them.

[gmaslin]

Cmatthes

I find it hard to believe that the same model US and Asian guitars have no parts in common. What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame

That post answers many of my questions and I appreciate the effort. You definitely hit the mark when it comes to identifying my desired guitar 'ethic' of function over flash. Those guitars look very comfortable to play but can they get me the wonderful tone I described earlier? What pickups are in the SFX Hamer Specials and do the other Specials (ie: Slammers) also have them?

I have single coil 'S' type guitars with serial/parallel switching that get me a pretty wide tonal palette but still sound like it is the same guitar. I don't really like schizo type shredders that mix humbuckers and single coils because they mostly sound confused and invariably have duplicated, unusable or missing tones. The pickup position should give you the sound you expect. I haven't tried the Yamahas you suggested but have played Ibanez in the same or similar configuration and that is what I have based this impression on. This is not an ill particular only to H-S-H or H-S-S configurations, I've played US Strats and other 'quality' guitars that exhibit this same kind of incoherence. The pickups should be able to reproduce the following basic sounds without effects:

1. sharp staccato (think funk and country quack)

2. smooth high pitches (not shrill and not muted but like a soprano aria)

3. glass like middle tones with piano depth and range (think Robert Cray)

4. authoritative mellow tones (think big round relaxed blues with bite)

A good guitar should do these basic sounds without struggling or sounding confused. Naturally, there are guitars that excel in any one these basic sounds but I refuse to have a herd of instruments. My absolute limit is 5 guitars and when you consider two are acoustic (6 and 12 string) that leaves just three for amplification. That is why I am so particular about what I want. I don't have the space or inclination to collect every one trick pony. Ideally, I would like my three guitars to do the basic sounds in their own particular voice like a singer doing different styles but all three having the chops to do what is asked of them. Sorry about the metaphorisms but I really did want to describe what I want so everyone reading could understand it. I hope I did a good job of it.

[hamerhead]

Cmatthes

I find it hard to believe that the same model US and Asian guitars have no parts in common. What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

That's some funny sh!t right there. :lol:

[cynic]

I'm thinking this game has run it's course

[JohnnyB]

Cmatthes

I find it hard to believe that the same model US and Asian guitars have no parts in common. What is the authority of your source? Who will corroborate that claim?

That's some funny sh!t right there. :lol:

Gmaslin: Maybe it's because he's on a first-name basis with the guys who ran Hamer and built the guitars ... among other things. He may have picked up (and also contributed) information with his brother.

[tomteriffic]

hamerhead

Noted. Now for the hard question, what components are different on the USA and MIK guitars?

ALL of them.

I'll corroborate it. Again. And there are very few people on the planet who know more about Hamers than CMatthes. In fact his twin brother literally wrote the book on the subject.

[django49]

And that particular book is a great investment in learning the TRUTH.

[gmaslin]

Rodip

It's very important to maintain a price structure for those who have a vested interest in it but that does not change my perception of value.

django49

Truth is what you accept to be true. Many people accept as truths what other people consider downright lies.

tomterrific

You're probably a very sweet guy but I've seen enough of the world to mistrust the information we are asked to accept from persons in the position to know.

JohnnyB

I now recognize my faux pas and am actively removing bits of crow from my teeth. Okay, so cmatthes is a source close to the action and that has been corroborated, my bad.

cynic

To the contrary, it looks like things are just getting started

hamerhead

I get the joke now.

[tomteriffic]

[aknapp]

+1

[mathman]

Salem, is that you?

The imports are a fine guitar (except for the newer Slammer series) but do not compare with the USA models. I started playing bass with a USA Cruise Bass (and a USA Fender), then got the XT version import as a step to playing guitar more and finally added a USA Prototype which is far and away a better guitar.

[gmaslin]

mathman

Welcome to my humble thread. I worked with a few gals named Salem and I can assure you that they are not me (ie: the person in that photo). Yes, I'm well familiar with the mantra of 'nothing compares to Hamer USA' but I like to obtain evident proof of 'facts' before I accept them.

So, before I construct some questions for cmatthes (or any others equally close or closer to the parts procurement process) that will help me get a clearer understanding of the variances between US and the rest of the Hamer line, I would like someone to tell me what they know about the Samshin pups. I asked about them earlier and the question went unanswered so it is being repeated.

[bubs_42]

I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

[JohnnyB]

I would like someone to tell me what they know about the Samshin pups. I asked about them earlier and the question went unanswered so it is being repeated.

From what little I've gleaned off the I-net, Samshin is the Korean OEM behind so many of the pickups that go in Asian-mf'd guitars, including the "Duncan Designed" pickups. If you don't like garden-variety USA Duncans, I can't imagine any fascination for Samshins. It's not like anybody strummed an import guitar and then went, "Oooh! Samshin pickups!"

I had developed a prejudice against USA Duncans in favor of Fralins and Rio Grandes, but Duncan makes some fabulous pickups if you know where to look. The ones that completely reversed my opinion were the Duncan Custom Shop Phat Cats that came in my Hamer Newport. Those pickups in that guitar re-define what an electric guitar can do.

I've had a bit of experience with Asian-sourced pickups, and all of my experience is to either get rid of the guitar or replace the pickups. Generally speaking, even when they have a good fundamental tone quality, they lack the sensitivity and dynamics needed for live playing. Case in point is an Indonesian Squier Vintage Modified Jazz fretless (the po' man's Jaco model) that I picked up used for $199 w/bag. The original pickups sounded musical, but the bass was tiring to play in-group because I had to pluck so hard to get passable dynamics. I replaced 'em with USA Bartolinis and it's now one of my most gorgeous-sounding basses.

My verdict: life's too short to examine, research, or otherwise dick around with mass-mass-produced MIK (e.g., Samshin) pickups.

[JohnnyB]

bcsride

... We can also forget the TLE models because I can foresee those giving me what I call, 'Teleribs', which is a growing discomfort from playing such an un-ergonomic shape for long periods of time....

TLEs have the contour for your ribs:

They also have direct-pull strings, though I've never noticed any difference in tone, playability, or tuning stability with direct-pulls vs. strings that angle from the nut to the tuners.

[gmaslin]

JohnnyB

I respect your opinion about 'Asian sourced pickups' but it doesn't really satisfy my curiosity. For the record, I happen to know for a fact that some allegedly "USA" pickups were produced in Asia and that some outsourced pickups like the ones on the Classic Vibe Strat are very good indeed. Did any Hamer or Slammer guitars use Samshins? Thanks for the backside view of the TLE. I guess the TLE goes back into the maybe category.

[velorush]

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

@gmaslin,

as far as component differences...

Hamer USA used one-piece bodies and book-matched figured wood caps. The imports generally used multi-piece bodies. The effect of glue holding two pieces of wood together on tone is best decided by the individual guitarist. I've heard some say a multi-piece body can't sound good because the vibrations can't travel through different wood pieces in different alignments through the glue. The same person will then claim that a set neck is superior to a bolt-on, or that the maple cap adds tone to his mahogany guitar. So take those sorts of hypocritical announcements with a grain of salt.

I can tell you that one of favorite and best sounding guitars is a Korean-made plywood guitar.

However, Hamer USA also seasoned its wood. That results in a more consistent tone, I think...I think it would be hard to argue that moisture content in a guitar's wood has zero effect on tone. From my research into Westone guitars as they moved from Matsumoku in Japan to Korea, the Koreans didn't season their wood. That doesn't guarantee a horrible guitar, but it does mean the guitars are more likely to be inconsistent.

Hamer USA also used a 3-piece neck, so Hamer USA necks rarely have twisting or bowing problems.

Hamer USA shielded the control cavity. I don't think the imports do that.

Pickups are higher quality in the USAs vs the imports. If you don't like Hamer JBs and 59s, that may not make that much difference to you.

USA tuners were higher quality. That means they last longer and hold in tune better.

Hamer USA frets use slightly harder metal, I think, so last longer. They put more care in installing/setup, so USA frets are smooth like butter...imports can be rough, with rough ends. USAs will also have a far less chance of a dead spot, and won't be as prone to buzzes and fretouts.

USA Hamers had better pots and switches. So imports are more likely to develop scratchy pots and cutouts.

The trems on USA Hamers use higher-quality steel. That keeps the trem knife-edges sharper longer, so you have less tuning problems.

The maple cap on flame-topped, carved top double cutaways (Sunbursts/Studios) is much thicker on the USA models. On the imports, it is sometimes a paper-thin veneer, but always much thinner.

The main thing in common with USA Hamers and imports is the design specs. There were a few import Hamers (like the Stellar and the Echotone) that have no equivalent in USA Hamers, and vice versa.

But the ones that are similar still use cheaper wood, cheaper metal, cheaper parts, and less care in setting up.

That doesn't mean you can't end up with a great guitar if you start with an import...you just have to do more work.

I have gotten to the point where I can purchase any USA Hamer, sight unseen, and know it will be a playable guitar. Especially if I buy it from someone here, but even on eBay, from Guitar Center, etc.

The most beatup Hamer USA I ever had still played and sounded great, just looked like hell. I've gotten at least one utter dog from every other guitar line I've tried, and that includes import Hamers. So I have to be much more careful looking at pictures, as questions about the trem, neck angle, fret buzzes, etc.

[JohnnyB]

JohnnyB

Thanks for the backside view of the TLE. I guess the TLE goes back into the maybe category.

The only downsides of the TLE are that there aren't that many of them and when you find them, they won't be $300.

As for the Samshin pickups, for the time and energy you're spending sifting for the one passable specimen in a pile of crap, you could have earned enough money to get some domestic handwounds that would be worth the time, discussion, and most importantly, the hands-on use for making music.

Ask anyone on this board about me. I look into things until I've done them to death, and describe nuances far past where others' eyes glaze over. I've owned MIK Washburns, Epiphones, Gretsch, Fender, Indonesian Squier, MIJ Ibanez, and I don't know what all. But even I have a threshold where I conclude that something's not worth further study. One such is Asian pickups. Even the MIK Washburns I bought my teenage daughter lost their MIK pickups to USA replacements. I have never found an MIK pickup worth leaving in the instrument, so I don't waste my time playing, evaluating, or even thinking about them anymore. Others are less patient and busier musicians than I am, which would account for the zero response (until me) about Samshin pickups.