Zep Loses 1st Round of Lawsuit Over "Stairway"

[sonny o'hoolighan]

Yep. Beatnix were clearly the innovators. They should sue whoever prevails in the current suit.

And then the Beatles have to sue the Beatnix

This conversation reminds me of the following scene from The Commitments:

"They nicked it from Marvin Gaye."

"He nicked it from Bach!"

[Crimsontider]

Heh. I just opened the audio track and played it with my wife sitting at the table - she had no idea what it was because she could not see what I was playing but asked "what orchestra is that doing Zep?".

Case closed.

Wow, and she didn't know the story. I wonder if some people might be a little based towards Zep

This biggest rip off all time is the Partridge family usurping the Cowsills, over exposing them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9sXoUhXobE&html5=1

[sonny o'hoolighan]

WTF!?

Go ahead. Ruin it by telling me they are all Lesbians.....or maybe not ruin...

Very nice! They should go on tour with the Iron Maidens.

[tomteriffic]

Which then raises the question. Is Miss Pamita still doing the Cheap Chick thing?

[JohnnyB]

This biggest rip off all time is the Partridge family usurping the Cowsills, over exposing them.

Partridge Family was inspired by The Cowsills, and the Cowsill kids were considered for the TV roles, but they had no acting experience and were too old by then for the roles anyway. The Cowsills had pretty much run through their hits before the series came out.

Here's a curiosity: The Cowsills on average aren't too long-lived. Both parents have been dead for a long time, and three of the "kids," baby boomers, are also deceased. Barry drowned in Hurricane Katrina at age 50.

[tomteriffic]

When I was a kid and trying to learn how to improvise on piano, I voiced a concern to my teacher that I'd come up with stuff that had been done a zillion times before. Charlie explained that that was just part of the process and then said "And besides, screw 'em! Johnny Bach wrote everything. It may be upside-down or backwards, but he wrote it. And his kids filled in the cracks."

[JohnnyB]

There are over 1100 known compositions by by J.S. Bach. I heard somewhere that it would take someone 65 years to copy all his works by hand.

[sonny o'hoolighan]

Which then raises the question. Is Miss Pamita still doing the Cheap Chick thing?

Wait a second...Cheap Trick, Led Zeppelin and Iron Maiden all-female tribute bands have been mentioned in this thread? I feel as if some kind of trifecta of awesomeness has been achieved today.

[jwhitcomb3]

"Lost the first round"? Rubbish. What shoddy journalism. The judge denied a motion to dismiss the case for lack of jurisdiction. There has not been a hearing on the merits.

[diablo175]

"Lost the first round"? Rubbish. What shoddy journalism. The judge denied a motion to dismiss the case for lack of jurisdiction. There has not been a hearing on the merits.

Exactly. Sensationalistic headline designed to lure us in. Well, it worked.

[Crimsontider]

Someone on a youtube thread called the intro a "rif"......it's not a riff, whole lotta love is a riff. It has so many variable that I equate it to hacking a 20 character password, like 12345678910-, 1123456789- and so on and so on for the rest of your life.

Let's say Taurus had a computer on tour with Zep, and they gave the computer to Page, and it had a 20 character password to log on. Page was able to log on, what are the chances that he was told the password as compared to randomly figuring it out?

[berussell]

I seem to recall John Fogerty being sued because his compositions sounded too much like himself? It went to trial, and John had to give a music lesson to the jury. That is the only jury trial that I wish I had been in the selection pool!

- B

[it's me HHB]

The intro is the exact harmonic motion as dozens of other well known dongs including the " don't want to leave her now" in Something. This whole this is ignorance in the first definition

[hamerhead]

.... as dozens of other well known dongs ......

.....um..... don't know that many really..........not that there's anything wrong with that.......

[it's me HHB]

That's because your only thinking of rock tunes. I did a post last month about Page copping stuff he learned on sessions that were pop or easy listening. One very popular tune that uses the same harmonic devise is My Funny Valentine. Everyone's heard of that

Ah classic typo lol

[velorush]

I seem to recall John Fogerty being sued because his compositions sounded too much like himself? It went to trial, and John had to give a music lesson to the jury. That is the only jury trial that I wish I had been in the selection pool!

- B

Fogherty lost that suit and had to pay royalties to the owner of his old catalog. He has since purchased his catalog back (mentioned it in more than a few interviews).

[berussell]

I seem to recall John Fogerty being sued because his compositions sounded too much like himself? It went to trial, and John had to give a music lesson to the jury. That is the only jury trial that I wish I had been in the selection pool!

- B

Fogherty lost that suit and had to pay royalties to the owner of his old catalog. He has since purchased his catalog back (mentioned it in more than a few interviews).

The NYT article is that John won the plagiarism suit, but lost a suit to recover attorney's fees. So a big mess all the way around.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/01/arts/music/01foge.html?_r=0

[velorush]

I seem to recall John Fogerty being sued because his compositions sounded too much like himself? It went to trial, and John had to give a music lesson to the jury. That is the only jury trial that I wish I had been in the selection pool!

- B

Fogherty lost that suit and had to pay royalties to the owner of his old catalog. He has since purchased his catalog back (mentioned it in more than a few interviews).

The NYT article is that John won the plagiarism suit, but lost a suit to recover attorney's fees. So a big mess all the way around.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/01/arts/music/01foge.html?_r=0

I stand corrected.

Much like jwhitcomb3's point made above about this headline not truthfully reflecting the development in the Zep suit, the "Fogerty Lost" headline I likely read back in the day (and left it at that, being at the time only minimally interested as I was up to my ears in nerd school) obscured the truth in the interest of gaining attention. Yes, Fogerty lost, but not the royalties suit; a headline about lawyer fees wouldn't garner much attention.

Thanks for the correction!

[berussell]

You know, I think Fogerty did lose his catalog, maybe he did have to pay the royalties. The part that stuck in my mind was later being accused of "sounding like yourself" lol. No big deal I really enjoy all the discussions.

Now the Zep suit: what bothers me, is: did you ever notice this song playing on the radio over the years? Or hear it at a bar? 40 years later you sue?! Maybe you had trouble finding out the name of the "ripoff artists". sheesh

[RobB]

Fogerty lost the rights to his publishing when he signed a mgmt/recording deal with Saul Zaentz/Fanasy Records in the late 60s. Being a green musician and not knowledgeable of music publishing laws, he soon found out that not only did he not own his own songs, but every time CCR was played on the radio, Zaentz was the guy getting paid!

After CCR split he refused to perform any of his songs for over a decade to keep Zaentz from getting any performance royalties. Zaentz became VERY wealthy from the CCR catalog thru the 70s, enough for him to become one of the most successful film producers in history, with many Oscars to show for it.

When Fogerty returned to performing in the early 80s with, "Centerfield", Zaentz sued HIM for copyright infringement/plagiarism for "The Old Man Down the Road", claiming it stole from Fogerty'a own song, "Run Through the Jungle." Fogerty won the court case by playing both songs in the courtroom to the jury, explaining the differences in the two.

[Willie G. Moseley]

Plagiarism can be, er, subliminal. Been there done that w/ a song I wrote, Didn't even realize part of it was a ripoff of a Dire Straits song (and in the same ****in' key!) until some non-musician listener pointed it out to me.

That's not to excuse any alleged plagiarism of the songs mentioned previously