Going up the neck, going down the neck and across the neck

[mathman]

Is there some technique or way I can learn to improve going from low e strings to the high e strings in the same fret area?

Sliding up the neck and going to the higher strings is fluid and easy. Going from the high e to the low e across the same frets is easy. going from the low e to the high e in the same fret area is clumsy for me.

Always has been. Could it be picking technique?

Any ideas?

Thanks

[jettster]

I'm not sure I clearly understand what you are describing? Is there maybe an example, tab / video of what you are talking about?

[mathman]

Yea, I was struggling to explain.

Say you start at the 3rd fret on the low e string. Do a scale G A# then 3rd fret a string C D, then d string, F G, g string A# C, b string D F, e string G A#.

I am sloppy and slow going from low E string 3rd fret to high e string 6th fret. Going in the opposite direction, high e string back to low e string, much cleaner and faster.

[jettster]

So if I understand correctly, an ascending scale in a fixed position? Something like this for example?

E |---------------------3-6-------|----------------------------------|
B |-----------------3-6-----------|----------------------------------|
G |-------------3-5---------------|----------------------------------|
D |---------3-5-------------------|----------------------------------|
A |-----3-5-----------------------|----------------------------------|
E |-3-6---------------------------|----------------------------------|

[gorch]

Arpeggios?

ETA: sliding up and down is different than crossing strings.

[mathman]

So if I understand correctly, an ascending scale in a fixed position? Something like this for example?

E |---------------------3-6-------|----------------------------------|

B |-----------------3-6-----------|----------------------------------|

G |-------------3-5---------------|----------------------------------|

D |---------3-5-------------------|----------------------------------|

A |-----3-5-----------------------|----------------------------------|

E |-3-6---------------------------|----------------------------------|

Yes, this. I think it is partly picking technique. Should the first pick be up or down?

[jettster]

As with anything there are always multiple approaches. When trying to pick everything, the difficulty with two note per string runs is string skipping. (Lifting the pick up over the string without picking). No matter if you start with an up or down stroke there will always be string skipping involved. In this example you could use hammer ons as an alternative. Picking the first note and then hammering on the second note of each string. That way you could avoid the whole string skipping thing. If your desire is to pick every note, I would think most times, people would start with a down stroke on each string, followed by an up. At that point you string skip and go to the next string with a down stroke.

You mentioned that you had an easier time with descending runs. Are you picking every note on descending runs or using pull offs? (Picking the first note and pulling off to the next note.) If that's the case, it may just be the difference in technique between hammer ons and pull offs that's presenting the difficulty. My approach would be to practice both methods.

Hopefully this makes sense.

[mathman]

Thanks. Will spend some time on this.

[django49]

An OLD one (yes, we played it in the 60s!).

The solo is an old cliche, but might be the exercise you can use. Just the quick ascending pentatonic scale withe the twist of repeating note up and down....Gives an exercise in string skipping.

Solo is not tabbed but is easily sorted out playing as follows (if starting on A rather than C):

A C A C D C D E D E G A etc......when you get to the high E string just do the same thing while sliding up that string, still using the penta notes.......Ends way up the neck nbefore returing to the song.

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/b/blues_magoos/we_aint_got_nothing_yet_tab.htm

[carbenez]

As Jettster said, 2 note per string patterns are going to be awkward because of string changes. Plus, 2 notes per string is just inefficient - if you listen watch someone that makes pentatonic scales sound super fluid (Eric Johnson comes to mind) he employs a mixture of 2 nps and 3 nps patterns with position shifts (slides) that also allow him to play 3 nps.

Oddly enough, we all learn/are taught the same old box patterns even though we know its probably not the best way to go about it. Here is a different way to play that same G minor pentatonic scale.... and be far more fluid. Once you get used to the stretches on the low strings, it starts to get easy to find licks and patterns like in the second example I wrote out

[mathman]

Thanks again. It started to make sense when I thought about the string skipping. I know I am sloppy with my picking and I think some of what I noticed was just me skipping strings easier going up rather than down.

[ZR]

It sounds like you just need to woodshed on your picking. Start the correct picking stokes slowly and avoid the temptation to go fast. You'll lose your form and will probably be playing with sloppy technique as you're just not there yet. No use to practice anything the wrong way no matter how fast or slow it's played. When you have the right technique down the speed will come with practice. Use a metronome and your playing will sound better when playing in time and give you motivation as you see your speed increase.

The only advice opposing this is what John Petrucci uses in developing speed. He says he will try a new run or lick at say 140BPM with perfect technique, but then he'll just kill himself trying at say 180BPM. Then when he comes back down to 140BPM it's easier because the speed seems like slow motion now compared to 180. Although, I probably wouldn't try that yet until your basic picking is solid.

Our own Kevin Dillard (I think he's still around but haven't heard from him lately - if so say hi Kevin!) wrote a book called Intelli-shred which helped me visualize the board in a more vertical way than just the horizontal boxes. He also had another book after that about arpeggios but I don't have that one.

Fretboard logic has helped me visualize the fretboard as well. The SE version has books one and two together.

I tried the Grimoire series like Jettster used before (still uses?) But, I sold them because I couldn't memorize every page, scale, mode etc. to memory like Rodney did!!

And finally, it might be good to practice a run from a song like "Love Gun" that's just a didley-didley run but may make practice more enjoyable. Good luck!!!

[JimiH]

Also investigate 3nps using economy picking, might be the answer?

[Ethan]

This exercise has helped me a lot...start at about 6:50 of video one

[gorch]

In essence, it seems technically you need to get your scales up and down in the same speed. Sure it's a matter of practicing. I had success learning difficult to me chords by creating a song that had the chords in it. So, I could not avoid the chord and practicing therefore. It turned out to be quite successful. Even, it's more fun to play a song rather then stupidly practising scales.

[Biz Prof]

A few years ago, I found a tab online for Vai's made-for-cinema piece, "Eugene's Trick Bag" and discovered that with regular practice, mere mortals can get to the point where they can play it at a slow speed cleanly. It really is a good practice piece for improving dexterity up and down the board.

http://www.guitaretab.com/s/steve-vai/29631.html

[jettster]

I tried the Grimoire series like Jettster used before (still uses?) But, I sold them because I couldn't memorize every page, scale, mode etc. to memory like Rodney did!!

Maybe the layout was confusing but it was seven different patterns. The patterns always repeat themselves regardless of mode or key. The book just showed the entire fret board for every mode and key. (For illustration purposes.) It's all the same seven patterns shifted around for different keys.