Recommend a decent turntable?

[Pieman]

The old Technics died and I am looking for a replacement in the $100-$150 range. Thoughts? Thanks.

I confess m ignorance. What about these TTs that have a USB connection. Is that to transfer your LPs into mp3s or play them through computer speakers?

[Boomerang~Junkie]

There are some quartz, direct drive Technics out there that are a steal if you search around. The SL1200 MKII (and up) series was made for almost forty years and they made millions of them - literally. They can be had fairly cheap if you look long enough. Their real world specs on wow and flutter mean the platter speed will stay locked on a given speed 1/100 of 1% of the time - that's high end audiophile grade specs right there. Kick ass tone arm etc. and built like a Checker Cab - easy pick for the money.

Just avoid any that have been DJ'd to hell and back. Most of your DJ's are the Samsonite gorillas of the music equipment world - they could fuck up a cannon ball. You'll need to decide if you want any auto features for returning the tone arm etc. Garrard makes some decent old belt drives with auto returns and some of them they play 33/45 and 78's.

There are a few decent USB turntables out there, but they'll be over $300.

I bought an very nice, older Garrard with a new $75 cartridge locally on CL for $100. Its easily worth almost three times that. Its something I'm not afraid of one of my daughter's trying to play a pizza on it.

You have a bunch of options.

Good luck.

[JohnnyB]

Which Technics turntable did you have, how old is it, and what did you pay for it?

• Do you realize that $150 today is equivalent to $30 in the mid-'70s, the "golden age" of stereo, which is less than a 1972 Kenner Close'n'Play for kids ($39.95) in today's money ($235 equivalent)?

• Most of the low cost USB turntables (e.g., Ion brand) like you see at Target, Wal-Mart, etc. are absolute crap. Don't buy one.
• You can convert any turntable's output into USB format with an outboard unit. This also opens up the possibility of picking a turntable for sound quality and adding USB for $29.95. But don't forget you still need a phono stage to perform the pre-preamp stage and the RIAA equalization. That circuit may be built into your receiver or integrated amp if it specifically has a "phono" input.

The best entry-level turntable I know of is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC at $449. It includes a $100 cartridge. It makes vinyl records sound better than most of us thought possible. If these turntables had been commonplace in the mid-'80s, I question whether CDs would have replaced LPs.

If you want something cheaper that is physically rugged, versatile, and has built-in phono preamp and USB interface, there's the direct drive Audio Technica AT-LP120-USB at $299. It has the built-in RIAA preamp and the USB converter.

I have direct experience with both of those turntables, and they're both excellent at their price points, though the Pro-Ject is a better-sounding turntable while the Audio Technica has more versatility--pitch control, 33/45/78 rpm, plus the built-ins.

If you must do it at $150, based on AT's track record (but I have no direct experience with this turntable), I'd look at the Audio Technica AT-LP60USB. Available for $150 with replacement stylus and includes the built-in phono preamp, USB DAC, necessary cabling, and even Windows and Mac software.

[ARM OF HAMER]

I still have my Garrard Zero 100 and other than having the stylus changed out when needed it still functions perfectly!

[Boomerang~Junkie]

JohnnyB,

Great information in your post on the digital converter - thank you.

Now that I think about it, I bought a Dual 1219 or 1225 or something like that and not a Garrard - its in my storage somewhere.

Crap - how sad, I don't even know what stereo equipment I own anymore. If the 18 year old me ran into the current me - he'd kick my ass.

[gorch]

I still,run an old Dual. Great selection!

[Disturber]

100 to 150$ won't get you far I am afraid.

I started to set up a second hifi system at home recently. It is a budget system in the basement. I recently got my uncles old 70's turn table. I renovated it and put on a new cartridge. JohnnyB guided me to the Grado Gold, which I bought. It's an excellent cartridge in the 200 dollar range.

Then I plugged the turntable in to my old Sansui receiver. It didn't sound so good. :-( The old built in phono stages of the early 70's aren't even close to what a modern phono stage has to offer. So, after looking at phono stages in the budget segment of 200-300 dollars I decided to upgrade to a used Linn Wakonda pre-amp with a built in phono stage. This unit plays a hell of a lot better than a separate 200 dollar phono stage, and I paid 200 dollars for the used Wakonda. It was a bargain.

I had the Wakonda connected to the old Sansui reciver using the receiver as a power amp only. It sounded so much better than with the old Sansui's built in phono stage. But still I was not 100% happy. So I sold the old Sansui for about 150 bucks, and bought a used Linn LK85 power amp for 250$. Now we are talking!

I have a great stereophile budget stereo system now. I had the turntable for free. But I have bought a new drive belt, new RCA contacts and a new pick up for the vinyl player. A new pre amp and a new power amp, and new cables for the whole system. I bought everything used exept for the drive belt and pickup. And I probably have about 570 dollars in to this system now. I got the turntable for free and I am using a pair of decent speaker that I bought in the 90's. I'll probably sell them later though, and buy a pair of better speakers.

The record player is important, so is the cartridge. But I'd say that if you, like me, will listen mostly to rock, pop and other types of modern music then the phono stage is where it matters the most. It does not matter how expensive the record player and stylus is, if the phono stage is not up to pair. It's the phono stage that is the most vital unit for sending a decent signal in to the pre/power amp of your system.

Get a Rolls Belari VP129, a Dynavox TPR-2, a Rega Phono MMII or a Rega phono mini A2D which also has USB. Spend more on the phono stage than on the cartridge, that is my advice.

Personally I'd look for a late 70's early 80's Japanese turntable and buy a new belt and a new cartridge/needle for it. I think that is where you will get most bang for the buck. The old Japanese stuff mostly held high qualty, but can still be found for reasonable prices.

Here is an old Sansui SR 222. Sansui made this modell for many many years. They are known for their quailty:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sansui-SR-222-Belt-Drive-Stereo-Turntable-Record-Player-/291304251318?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d3161fb6

Old Yamaha's can be found for next to nothing. They were built with high quality. Here is a direct drive. For under 80 bucks it is a steal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-YP-B4-Turntable-33rpm-45rpm-/291395774763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d88aa92b

Here is the same machine, fully serviced for 330:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-YP-B4-with-Shure-M91E-Fully-Serviced-/121581900455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4ed892a7

A Yamaha CS50P, which is similar to my budget record player that is built by Yamaha, can be had for under a 100 dollars. These are really great record players. Just ad a new belt and a new needle.

The Yamaha YP-500 or Yamaha YP700-701 are also REALY great players that can be found for under a 100 bucks, if you are lucky.

Old Marantz players can usually also be had at decent prices.

[LostArt]

audio technica stuff getting great reviews

[mc2]

JohnnyB...

Great info. Thanks.

Hey, would those outboard USB interfaces also work well to plug in old tape decks via RCA jacks to also digitize their audio ?

If so, is there any particular one better suited for that?

[JohnnyB]

JohnnyB...

Great info. Thanks.

Hey, would those outboard USB interfaces also work well to plug in old tape decks via RCA jacks to also digitize their audio ?

If so, is there any particular one better suited for that?

Yes. The unit pictured in the earlier post is switchable between standard line source (e.g., tape) and phono source requiring more gain and RIAA equalization.

I have no direct experience digitizing analog sources with these units, so I can't say who has the best for the money.

If you want something that's (probably) better in every way without getting into much money, there's this Pro-Ject unit at $249. It's a quality phono preamp able to handle both high output (e.g., moving magnet) and low output (moving coil) cartridges, and can output digital to both USB and Toslink, even simultaneously. It can also digitize tape with the mini-plug line level input that bypasses the phono stage.

I have also read very favorable comments in the audiophile press about Focusrite products. That's pretty rare for pro audio products to score high with home audio magazines. Focusrite's product line is pretty extensive as is its price range, so you probably need to check out their product line to see if there's a good match.

If you have your own phono preamp (e.g., in a receiver or integrated amp or whatever), you don't need another one in the A/D converter. It's just that the all-in-one models are convenient, especially for those who don't have a phono stage (I went about 14 years without one) when I was all-digital. OTOH, the Pro-Ject unit probably has a much better phono stage than any '80s receiver you might have hanging around the house.

[JohnnyB]

The Technics SL12x0 series offered a lot of precision, durability, and smooth operation for very low money thanks to a long production run and economy of scale. However, the design had not been improved since 1982, which meant it was decades out of date regarding resonance damping and vibration control. There are ways to improve that, but if you want a new equivalent, Pioneer has come out with the PLX-1000:

The control layout is pretty identical to the Technics, which makes sense so DJs don't have to learn a new layout. There are some improvements on this deck over the Technics:

• The motor has about twice the torque
• There is more internal damping and use of more inert materials
• The feet appear to be better and more shock absorbant (the Technics ones looked effective, but actually were not)
• The tonearm has internal damping (this is important; I got a significant improvement when I wrapped my Technics tonearm with PFTE pipe thread tape)

Most reviews of this deck are oriented toward DJ-ing, but here is a non-DJ review that evaluates its qualities as a home deck. There are three basic turntable drive systems--idler, belt, or direct. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, but direct drive has some distinct advantages when done well. Lately direct drive has made some inroads into the audiophile marketplace, but the ones I know of range from $9600 to $30,000. At $699 the Pioneer is a bargain and can probably compete with $2,000+ decks with a better platter mat and a shock-absorbing platform. The tonearm looks enough like the Technics that the KAB fluid damper might fit as well.

[Pieman]

Maybe I should just get the Technics repaired. Does anybody have a repair shop to recommend?

I am not looking for audiophile performance. I just want to play my old LPs and the ones my wife keeps dragging home. I bought some speakers that were recommended her last year and the Marantz 2230 receiver is just fine for what I need.

I recognize this isn't 1978. And I still have the LP deluxe goldtop that cost me $290.

[duncans]

I have an old belt drive Technics that I repaired myself. Lots of info available.

[JohnnyB]

Maybe I should just get the Technics repaired. Does anybody have a repair shop to recommend?

I am not looking for audiophile performance. I just want to play my old LPs and the ones my wife keeps dragging home. I bought some speakers that were recommended her last year and the Marantz 2230 receiver is just fine for what I need.

I recognize this isn't 1978. And I still have the LP deluxe goldtop that cost me $290.

What Technics model do you have and what's wrong with it? If it's a belt drive 'table and the speed consistency is gone, it may just need a new belt. Here's a source for most replacement belts.

[hamersandstrats]

There are other Technics DD models that were built either before or around the same time as the SL-1200 that are very much under the radar, and can be found for under $150 all the time. I bought an SL-1800 off eBay a few years ago and its a great table. No auto return or anything fancy, but it's completely quiet in its operation, unlike the 3-4 other tables I've been through-Garrard direct drive, JVC belt drives, etc.

[JohnnyB]

^^^ Good point. One advantage of an SL1800 or other NON SL12x0 Technics is that it was probably never DJ'd.

[Boomerang~Junkie]

The Technics SL12x0 series offered a lot of precision, durability, and smooth operation for very low money thanks to a long production run and economy of scale. However, the design had not been improved since 1982, which meant it was decades out of date regarding resonance damping and vibration control. There are ways to improve that, but if you want a new equivalent, Pioneer has come out with the PLX-1000:

The control layout is pretty identical to the Technics, which makes sense so DJs don't have to learn a new layout. There are some improvements on this deck over the Technics:

• The motor has about twice the torque
• There is more internal damping and use of more inert materials
• The feet appear to be better and more shock absorbant (the Technics ones looked effective, but actually were not)
• The tonearm has internal damping (this is important; I got a significant improvement when I wrapped my Technics tonearm with PFTE pipe thread tape)

Most reviews of this deck are oriented toward DJ-ing, but here is a non-DJ review that evaluates its qualities as a home deck. There are three basic turntable drive systems--idler, belt, or direct. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, but direct drive has some distinct advantages when done well. Lately direct drive has made some inroads into the audiophile marketplace, but the ones I know of range from $9600 to $30,000. At $699 the Pioneer is a bargain and can probably compete with $2,000+ decks with a better platter mat and a shock-absorbing platform. The tonearm looks enough like the Technics that the KAB fluid damper might fit as well.

YES to ^ this ^ . If I can find a used Pioneer PLX-1000 it will likely be my next turntable. It does look like they have made a handful of dampening and other improvements on the old Technics SL platform while keeping the rest of the things that made it awesome. Great post - thanks.

[JohnnyB]

YES to ^ this ^ . If I can find a used Pioneer PLX-1000 it will likely be my next turntable. It does look like they have made a handful of dampening and other improvements on the old Technics SL platform while keeping the rest of the things that made it awesome. Great post - thanks.

This Pioneer came out just a few months ago. You may have to wait awhile before any used ones show up. At $697 it's a bit of a steal. The latest issue of Stereophile reviews the turntable and--although direct drive flies in the face of audiophile dogma--the reviewer considered this Pioneer TT to be the best in-production turntable under $2,000.

Compared to what people paid for stereo equipment back in the s "golden age of stereo," this Pioneer is a tremendous value. The first generation Technics SL1200 came out around 1975 at $350. That would be over $1520 today. $699 in today's money (the Pioneer PLX-1000) is about $160 in 1975, which would have barely gotten you an idler drive Dual back then.

Waiting for a used PLX-1000 might save you $200 at most when a few show up in a year or two. If you can, get a new one now with warranty.