Last PA question...

E

edgar_allan_poe

New member
OK...the other guys in my band have finally been convinced to buy a PA. It took us getting the house band gig at a major bar in Pittsburgh to convince them...but I digress.

Here are my questions...

1. Is there an advantage/disadvantage to having powered speakers? To me this seems like a wash...power at the board or power on the speakers, I see no difference other than price. Educate me.

2. The Mackie 808s runs 600 watts into 2 ohms, but the new Yamaha does 500 watts at 8ohms. We will probably only be running two cabs in stereo, so my guess would be the cabs are an 8ohm load. The Yamaha is also about $300 cheaper. What would the Mackie be putting out at 8 ohms?

We want to keep the setup as simple as possible, and remember that this is an acoustic act. Here are the setups we are considering...

1. JBL EON 15" speakers, powered, 300 watts with a 12 channel Yamaha board with effects. The total comes in at around $1800

2. Passive 15" speakers...Yamaha or JBL, or..., with a Mackie or Yamaha 8 channel powered mixer. This setup is around $1400-1800 depending on the decision to buy the Mackie or the Yamaha.

 
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Probably makes no difference assuming you won't want to use the PA for other groups (maybe larger) in the foreseeable future. One minor consideration: with the powered speakers, if one ever goes down for repairs, you lose the amp and the speaker while it's in the shop. With the other option you only have to borrow/rent one piece of gear in that circumstance.

Good luck and have fun!

MarkB

 
I agonized over the same question last summer. Ultimately I decided to go for passive speakers, because the claims of faster and easier setup with powered speakers didn't fly with me. You have to get clean power to each speaker which is more of a hassle than just running speaker cables and powering a rack. You've got more power amps to potentially fail, and the subs are REALLY heavy...plus, they're pricey.

I went with a Yamaha EMX 5000 with a Mackie power amp in the rack for the subs, and a pair of 15" subs and 12" mains, all by Turbosound (don't laugh, they are compact, look cool, and sound killer -- took them over the JBL MPros in repeated A/Bs. They were recommended to me by Cool Beans Gene and he'd done ALOT of homework).

Everybody in the band is very happy with this rig. FWIW

 
If you don't call me, you are an idiot.
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Not so much of an idiot that I can't tell time. My post was made at around 8AM, last I checked, you opened at 11:00 on Sat. DICKWAD!!! /emoticons/default_biggrin.png/emoticons/default_ph34r.png/emoticons/default_wub.png/emoticons/default_biggrin.png LOL!!!

 
If you don't call me, you are an idiot.
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A pitch for the often-overlooked Yorkville, perhaps?/emoticons/default_wub.png

Poe - listen to the man! Yorkville speakers kick ass (at very reasonable prices, I might add)

edited to delete my nonsensical first edit /emoticons/default_ph34r.png

 
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Poe -- if you have the opportunity, you really need to listen to the Mackie and Yamaha at the same time. I have a Yamaha EMX 660 (EEEngine) small box powered mixer. In my opinion, it sounds a little dark, compared to the Mackie. My Carvin powered mixer sounds very similar to the Mackie. Then, I hook up my Crown XS power amp, and it takes it to yet another level.

The Mackie is 300 watts at 8 ohms

 
I am no expert but I have the JBL Eon 15's and a small board for my accoustic gigs and it works really nicely. If I had it to do over again, I might go for a the smaller Eon's because the 15 are hard to carry but they sound very very good.

 
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a pair of 15" subs and 12" mains, all by Turbosound (don't laugh, they are compact, look cool, and sound killer -- took them over the JBL MPros in repeated A/Bs.
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+1 on the Turbosounds.

 
1. Is there an advantage/disadvantage to having powered speakers? To me this seems like a wash...power at the board or power on the speakers, I see no difference other than price. Educate me.2. The Mackie 808s runs 600 watts into 2 ohms, but the new Yamaha does 500 watts at 8ohms. We will probably only be running two cabs in stereo, so my guess would be the cabs are an 8ohm load. The Yamaha is also about $300 cheaper. What would the Mackie be putting out at 8 ohms?

We want to keep the setup as simple as possible, and remember that this is an acoustic act. Here are the setups we are considering...

1. JBL EON 15" speakers, powered, 300 watts with a 12 channel Yamaha board with effects. The total comes in at around $1800

2. Passive 15" speakers...Yamaha or JBL, or..., with a Mackie or Yamaha 8 channel powered mixer. This setup is around $1400-1800 depending on the decision to buy the Mackie or the Yamaha.
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1. A power amp that is separate from the board and speakers is best. If it fails you just repair/replace the amp instead of the board/amp or speaker/amp.

Convenience and portability (not counting weight) are your advantage to powered speakers. They can also be used as acoustic guitar amps.

2. A 2 ohm load is usually not recommended for a small PA system. Manufacturers like to give you specs that sound good. You will not hear a significant difference using 8 ohm speakers with the Mackie. The 500 watts into 8 ohms seems to me that it is the stronger amp.

As for the two choices you have listed...

1. JBL EON powered speakers are good stuff! How many channels are you going to use? Do you really need 12 channels?

2. A powered mixer is the most convenient. Period. Many of them allow you to bypass the power amp section if you need to add a bigger amp for some gigs. You said you wanted something as simple as possible and this is it.

Go with the powered mixer and get a case for it. You will be glad that you have that case one day! Keep it simple and quick to set up.

 
Thanks for all the help guys. As luck would have it, I was able to borrow a Mackie 808s from a friend and we will use it for this weekends gig. I went out to GC today and it is looking like we will go with the Yamaha EMX5000 and JBL MPRO 15".

Here is the thing to remember guys, it isn't just me purchasing this equipment....actually, it isn't me at all. The equipment is being purchased by the other guitar player in the band. He has a credit card with GC and they are offering free financing/no interest for 1yr. Bottom line is that it has to be purchased through GC. I have heard the Yorkville stuff in person and it sounds amazing. But it ain't my dough....

It prices out as follows...

Mixer - $649

JBL MP415 Cabs - $599 each

Total - $1847

They told us that it would be $1600 out the door. Not too bad.

 
If you don't call me, you are an idiot.
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Not so much of an idiot that I can't tell time. My post was made at around 8AM, last I checked, you opened at 11:00 on Sat. DICKWAD!!! /emoticons/default_biggrin.png/emoticons/default_ph34r.png/emoticons/default_wub.png/emoticons/default_biggrin.png LOL!!!
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Well, it's too bad. I have some stuff that would work out quite well and I am willing to sky it to you, but we don't take GC Cards.

 
Well, it's too bad. I have some stuff that would work out quite well and I am willing to sky it to you, but we don't take GC Cards
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Yeah...I know bro. I told them about the Yorkville stuff and it fell on deaf ears. Jay didn't want to hear about anything other than Yamaha and JBL. I actually happens that way a lot in this band. I play with some seriously talented dudes...but they are amazingly close minded. They think I am nutz for not playing an LP through a Road King. I try in vain to explain that that isn't what I do...it falls on deaf ears. I tried bro.

 
I don't know shit about PAs, but big ups on this!
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Thanks bro...I appreciate the props. We are finding it a lot easier to book acoustic shows than full band shows. We are also finding it more lucrative and, a whole lot easier on us physically. Right now we are actually having to turn down acoustic gigs. Our intention when we formed this band, was just to have some fun. We never thought we would actually be able to make some decent cash in the process. Right now, we are looking to book 4-8 acoustic shows, and 2 electric shows a month. That is about $1500 a month in supplemental cash for me. Also..the acoustic shows are normally between 6-10pm so we can get to bed and go to work the next morning without having to take an injection of a tripple espresso. LOL!!!

I have been bitching up a storm about our current PA, and until now, it has fallen on deaf ears. The electric band is fortunate enough to play gigs at venues that have their own PA. The acoustic act is another beast. The vast majority of places want us to run our own sound, and up until now we have been using absolute crap. We have been suceeding despite our sound, not because of our sound...and that pisses me off.

I recently blew close to 20K on lawyer fees...or I would have bought a PA a long time ago. Right now, I am lucky to have enough cash to buy groceries. LOL!!

 
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